Today is the 15th day of the Republicans’ government shutdown, and there is seemingly no end in sight. Although Democrats have been pushing to meet with Republicans in D.C., Republicans have been less than willing to meet. Regarding Trump’s attitude, White House Press Secretary Leavitt told reporters, “His position is very clear. There’s nothing to negotiate.” How can we expect the shutdown to end if one side won’t even come to the table?
Jen is joined by Center for American Progress President Neera Tanden to remind us that the central issue of the shutdown is Republicans refusing to provide healthcare for millions of Americans. Remember, for only a small fraction of the money given to billionaires from the tax cuts awarded to them in the Big Beautiful Bill, America would be able to fund the healthcare of millions of Americans.
Jen and Tanden also discuss the importance of showing up for Saturday’s No Kings protests. The majority of Americans do not agree with what Trump is doing. We need to remind Republicans of that.
Neera Tanden is the president and CEO of the Center for American Progress and the CEO of the Center for American Progress Action Fund. She was previously the Domestic Policy Advisor to President Joe Biden and director of the Domestic Policy Council, overseeing some of the administration’s signature achievements, including efforts to lower the cost of prescription drugs and expand health insurance coverage.
The transcript below has been edited slightly for clarity.
Jen Rubin
Hi, this is Jen Rubin, Editor-in-Chief of The Contrarian. We are delighted to have back Neera Tandon, who is the CEO of CAP. Welcome, Neera!
Neera Tanden
Great to be with you, as always!
Jen Rubin
We are past the two-week mark on the shutdown. The Republicans have taken the position that they’re not going to negotiate with Democrats. Is this sustainable? And do you think things will change when the rest of those 22 million people get noticed that their Obamacare subsidies are going away, and their premiums are gonna go sky high?
Neera Tanden
Yeah, I really don’t think it’s a tenable position for Leader Thune, Speaker Johnson, to basically say “I am just not going to even meet with Democrats over a shutdown.” It allows Democrats to say, which they are saying, you know, we’d just really would love to resolve this. And we can’t, because no one’s willing to have a conversation. I think it looks ridiculous, it looks, like you don’t want to solve a problem. I think most people understand that if there’s a disagreement.
The way to solve that is by actually talking to the person you disagree with. I appreciate that the Senate Republicans and the congressional… the House Republicans’ position is my way or the I way, but I also think most Americans understand that that doesn’t make much sense. And I think what’s been really crucial in the last two weeks is that people in the country really do recognize that premium shock having a system where people will face double premiums doubling, some people will have quadrupling of their premiums, and just Republicans being unwilling to even address it makes very little sense.
Jen Rubin
Now, for the average American, they may not yet fully comprehend what’s going to happen, or they may have gotten notice and think, oh, well, things are going to get kind of cleared up, in the short term. Come November 1, I think much of that doubt and confusion or lack of awareness is going to go away. Is that really where kind of the rubber hits the road as far as you’re concerned?
Neera Tanden
I really think there are two elements of this. One in the immediate term, and one in the long term. In the immediate term, it is the case that there are you know, over 20 million Americans, all throughout this country. Just a reminder, a majority of them are in states that voted for Donald Trump. That is because, those states heavily rely on the exchanges for insurance. They have higher rates of people who don’t have health insurance, so they’ve really relied on Obamacare, ironically enough, to provide coverage. So what will happen is because, as we’ve discussed in the past, because the subsidies will go away, people will see… they will get notices of their own premiums doubling, tripling, quadrupling. But I do want to say that there’s an impact in the longer term.
The Obamacare subsidies, will, you know, if they go away, it will mean millions of people will choose not to get healthcare, right? So, that’s on top of the people who, because of the One Big Beautiful Bill, those people, there are 16 million people, combined who will lose healthcare between the One Big Beautiful Bill Act
And doing nothing about premiums. And what that really means for the system is that we all pay more when people have no insurance, and they go to the doctor, or go to the emergency room, excuse me, go to the emergency room, and get coverage. CAP did a report several months ago at just 16 million people uninsured will mean all of our premiums rise. So, that’s what’s really at stake here, is not just the 20 million people who will face premium shock, although that is a lot of people in America. And as a reminder, these are all working Americans. They’re people who make between 40… you know, it can be $25,000, $30,000 for a single person, but it goes all the way up to $65,000, $70,000, you know, I mean, in which the subsidy is really strong. These are working Americans in our country who just don’t get health insurance from their employer. They own small businesses, they work for a small business, they’re an independent contractor. So those are, you know, these are, like, working Americans who are gonna face this shock, and really, it’s unnecessary.
We could deal with this problem very quickly, I would just note, for a small, small fraction of what the tax cuts for billionaires cost, and one big, beautiful bill. You could alleviate the deep anxiety and concern of all these Americans, and Republicans are just choosing not to.
Jen Rubin
Right. The first excuse from the Republicans were, Democrats just want to extend healthcare to illegal immigrants. That’s false, because they don’t qualify. Then they said this is all about care for trans Americans. This has nothing to do with that and now they seem to be settling back into the old saw, Obamacare as the problem. Is that really where they’re landing, to get rid of Obamacare entirely? And how does that track with the American people?
Neera Tanden
So, I think this is a great point, which is it is important for people to recognize that they have thrown up, sort of, every, you know, it’s like, it’s like the old line with Republicans. You know, it’s a noun, a verb, illegal immigrants, right? Whatever the issue is, noun, a verb, illegal immigrants, which is, if you think about it, just disgusting that this is how their go-to politics for them, but it… you’re right, it was proven false. It is a lie, it is unfortunate that we have a Vice President of the United States who continually lies to the country, but there we are. And so that was proven wrong, and they have moved on, and I think this is an important lesson, that if you clearly state how they are lying over and over again. Particularly on an issue like healthcare, Democrats can get them to move on to another topic. Of course, they tied Trans Americans, and I have to tell you, I can’t even follow how this is helping in specific trans people, but yes, that was another hobby horse, because this is one of their greatest… these are their greatest hits to attack people and try to weaponize, people’s experiences. So then, they have now, and I found this, like, super fascinating, they have now rested on, you know, the real problem is Obamacare. Now, in honesty, I think this is, like a lot more truthful. Like, the truth is, these guys have tried to get rid of the Affordable Care Act like, 70 times. They’ve taken 70 votes. They hate this piece of legislation because it offers care to people, it provides and makes healthcare more affordable. Who knows what the reason is?
My favorite is Mike Lawler, who should be a pretty vulnerable Republican, is out there talking about how the real problem is Obamacare. And then, you know, I just had the fun of asking Grok of how many people would lose healthcare coverage if you repealed the entire Obamacare, and it’s like, you know, thousands upon thousands of people in his district. It’s really amazing. Like, I think what’s which is fascinating is because they were so ideologically opposed to this basic notion that people should have healthcare in the country, right? Like, you should have, like, it’s, you know, like, we could join the rest of the world, and people having access to healthcare. You know, they’re so opposed to that that they’re going back to this hobby horse of that. But I say truth in advertising. You know, truth in advertising. And they should all run on actual repeal. And, you know, what’s actually happening with the premiums is they’re trying to quietly repeal the ACA. And thank God, honestly, Democrats stood up, made this fight about this thing, so it was front and center, and that is why I think they are winning this debate.
Jen Rubin
And, as many of us predicted, if Democrats can communicate what the substance of the issue is, they are overwhelmingly on the right side. And this is not just like every other shutdown, because every other shutdown has not worked this way. We’ve had a president and a majority party that has sat down with the opposition, we’ve had discussion, so this is rather unique.
No Kings Day is coming up on Saturday, and people have all sorts of reasons for turning out. I’m gonna have a piece tomorrow, and it’s very long because I list all of them. Healthcare has to figure in that, and that, I think, is one reason why you see the White House demonizing people who are turning out to protest that they want healthcare. What was your take on this accusation that people who are out there to demonstrate for healthcare, or because they don’t like ICE kidnapping people off the street, or because they don’t want, Donald Trump, prosecuting his enemies, that these are somehow ANTIFA or terrorists, that seems so over the top. How do you think that goes down, and should that motivate more people to turn out?
Neera Tanden
You know, I just find it fascinating that we are dealing with so many Republicans who actually used to lecture us on the Constitution, and original intent, and like, what’s the true meaning of the Constitution, and last time I checked.
The First Amendment had, it’s about free speech, and freedom of association. And why is freedom of association so important? Because our founders thought the right to protest was crucial in a democracy to be able to hold leaders accountable. And let’s be clear what this demonization is about. They want to basically label anyone who opposes this administration as terrorists, Antifa. This is exactly what Putin did in Russia, what Orban did in Hungary, and it is designed to make people scared. Scared of raising their voice. On Saturday, I hope people bring flags. I hope they bring the American flag, because what we are doing is we are fighting for our country. We are the patriots in this fight. It is people who are betraying our Constitution who say, no due process rights. There are people… it is people who are betraying our Constitution who say, “No free speech.” We actually, like, there are different kinds of speech, and the state can regulate free speech if it’s on a college campus, or it’s a university, or it’s a media institution. Like, here, free speech, we don’t care about it anymore. I think what’s been so brazen over the last almost year is how much these people have taken core constitutional values, the values that are sort of our civic Bible, and thrown them in the toilet for power. And the people who oppose that are the patriots. We are the people who are, like, carrying the torch for this democracy, from our ancestors who fought hard for it. So, these people, I would say. I hope it mobilizes more people to peacefully protest, and, you know, lots of people sacrificed in generations. Slaves sacrificed. Huge numbers of people. It’s our founding fathers sacrifice. Lots of people have sacrificed for this basic notion that we live in a democracy where we all have a vote, and we all have a voice. And we have always had to fight for that principle. Unfortunately, these days, we have to fight harder. But we are not the first to fight.
We are just in a long generation of fighters, and it is important for us to be able to look our grandchildren in the eye and say we did everything we could in this moment. So I hope you… everyone who hears this comes to the protests, brings 10 people to the protests, because the way we fight autocracy is demonstrating to the country that we are the majority, and we can do that this Saturday.
Jen Rubin
Absolutely, and peaceful protests, using our voices, peaceful, peaceful protests, with signs, with our voices, in contrast to what the administration does, which is now using violence against the American people.
Neera Tanden
100 percent.
Jen Rubin
That’s the difference. So, thank you, Neera. We will, keep following the shutdown, obviously, and the healthcare issue, and, I will be out, on, Saturday in DC, and so find a location near you. Thanks so much, Nero. We’ll look forward to seeing you next time.
Neera Tanden
Always great to be with you.
