Jennifer, this would all be very interesting in an academic seminar setting, with graduate students taking notes, all nodding and clucking together. But with the current 5-alarm shitfire blazing uncontrolled in Washington --- the destruction of USAID, the subversion of the Treasury Department and OPM by a bunch of 22-year-old Muskhole zealots without security clearances gaining access to classified information, the projected end of the Education Department, the elimination of OSHA, the subjugation of Constitutional order and separation of powers by a dumb tyrant determined to make America Hungary again.....I don't think this is the right focus for our energies right now. At least it's not for me.
Please give much more space to how we can use lawsuits to gum up the works of this Hitler Lite regime the American people were stupid enough to actually send back to the White House again.
I think we can, in effect, walk and chew gum concerning the current crisis in Washington and the underlying support of Trumpism. This was a fascinating discussion.
Corbin, the christian attitude is germaine(sp?) to our current problem and needs to be understood in order to show what got us here.....we need to know why americans have been idiofied.
I understand your point Corbin, but doesn't this information make us better prepared as we talk with our neighbors and community about the injustices we see happening? Did you actually watch and listen? Bringing about grassroots change begins with understanding the people supporting these policies. A little compassion, even when facing your political adversary, helps. Ignorance is a huge factor here.
I did indeed. But none of this is going to help with the lawsuits, demonstrations and non-compliance with fascism that is needed right now. We need much more information about active resistance.
it's a coup. It took Hitler 53 days to kill Germany's democracy, but unelected foreign-born private citizen Elon Musk's team is rewriting the code that keeps the country running.
I am glad you mentioned the law suits. Yesterday we heard and read more about those. I feel the need to know the updates as well. There is much to keep straight. I hope we win the suits and can protect people who participate in doing their jobs within those suits. I hope we can protect their jobs.
My concern about the lawsuits is that Trump and Company will simply ignore them. Especially now that Trump has total immunity for any “official” acts as president. I would love to hear someone speak to that and what we can do to make sure law still means something in this country.
Curtis Yarvin, a writer influencing the "new right" (JD Vance is reportedly a fan), has written in his "butterfly revolution" that the "rebooting" of the US government should go something like this
Butterfly Revolution Step 1: Campaign on Autocracy
Butterfly Revolution Step 2: Purge the Bureaucracy
Butterfly Revolution Step 3: Ignore the Courts
Butterfly Revolution Step 4: Co-Opt the Congress
Butterfly Revolution Step 5: Centralise Police and Powers
Butterfly Revolution Step 6: Shut Down Elite Media and Academic Institutions
Butterfly Revolution Step 7: Turn Out the People
Found the above summary in the notes on
"DARK GOTHIC MAGA: How Tech Billionaires Plan to Destroy America"
The video creator acknowledges outlining the conspiracy makes her sound crazy. But her citations are many, and include the work of Gil Duran, a reputable journalist who's been covering this beat for a while:
"Yarvin wrote that in a second term, Trump could appoint a different person to act as the nation’s “CEO.” This CEO would be enabled to run roughshod over the federal government, with Trump in the background as “chairman of the board.” The metaphors clarify the core idea: Run the government as a rogue corporation rather than a public institution beholden to the rules of democracy.
"Trump himself will not be the brain …He will not be the CEO. He will be the chairman of the board—he will select the CEO (an experienced executive). This process, which obviously has to be televised, will be complete by his inauguration—at which the transition to the next regime will start immediately."
This CEO will bring a new radical new style of leadership to the federal government:
"The CEO he picks will run the executive branch without any interference from the Congress or courts, probably also taking over state and local governments. Most existing important institutions, public and private, will be shut down and replaced with new and efficient systems. Trump will be monitoring this CEO’s performance, again on TV, and can fire him if need be."
Er: as regards "christian" nationalism (haven't found anything Christ-like about their actions or goals) nationalism -- yes they're definitely a force and may be collaborating with the "nerd reich" -- e.g., Elon Musk to get what they want.
Barbara, thank you for sharing that concern. In spite of having lawsuits, I believe we all have the same concern you have, of law being meaningless because he has wheedled out of them by twisting his way into controlling or owning many of the people who have disallowed them, including part of the Supreme Court. In some ways, I wonder if he simply laughed and think that’s going to keep us busy, While believing that we cannot touch him by suits. I hope that is not the case.
Your reminder of the adjective “official” In describing which business of his at the White House Will not have to be held accountable, Is crucial. I interpret that as meaning that judges and justices hold and retain the right to determine which business or acts he does or has done there, or while in office, remain at their jurisdiction, not his. Could the majority of the supreme Supreme Court members rightfully determine that in some instances, he was acting according to his personal wishes rather than his professional or legal position and obligation? It seems to me that they could stop him that way. In order to do that we need enough people in the Supreme Court, who will abide by what is right and truly uphold the Constitution of the United States as it is their job to do. While we do have some wonderful people on the Supreme Court, I wish I could trust each one of them. We need everyone of them to stand up for what is right, and to reverse that ruling which gives him immense freedom, freedom that is foreign to the checks and balances we have written in our Constitution. Perhaps these lawsuits will awaken that realization.
One way to understand Corbin’s comments is that we’re facing a very real danger right now in the short-term, while the above video is aspiring to something that’s long-term. That’s all very noble and admirable, but the reality is that right now the neighborhood is burning down with 100-mile-an-hour winds coming toward our homes; so a lot of shouting and pounding on doors is needed. Now. With less concern about hurting feelings. “Political adversary” is an interesting way to describe it. Since Trump came onto the political scene, current events have transcended politics. With that word, there’s a sense of a known process with strategies that all of us can focus on, and a general feeling that everyone means well even if we disagree with them. That doesn’t describe the current reality. We’re entering an age that’s new even for the experts. There have been many dictatorships throughout history, but none of them had the peculiar role that America plays in today’s world…
Because trump is being used as a distraction. I believe rn that even the terrifying "christian" nationalists, "new apostolic reformation," and/or christofascists are a distraction. They have power, but nothing like what unelected foreign-born private citizen billionaire nazi-saluting Elon Musk has. He's got granular, down-to-the-individual level control of the US Treasury.
I agree it’s all important to understand. The white christian nationalists are the source of most of what is happening now. Project 2025, written by these extreme “christofascists”, is the playbook Trump is following. He has his greed along with his racist and vengeful agenda driving him now, but he isn’t interested in theocracy. The christian nationalists are using him to remove all the democratic powers to resist and then install their extremist theocratic beliefs as the law of the land. Then they will push Trump aside and put Russell Vought, J.D. Vance and Mike Johnson into the Council of Commanders, the inner circle of government.
We have to get Democrats and other Americans who support a pluralistic society to push our leaders to go in harms way and challenge this descent into darkness. Here is a letter I sent to former VP Harris this morning: Dear Madam VP (former) - I am writing as a former and current supporter. We are in the worst crisis our Nation has faced since the Civil War and our Democratic leaders are floundering in the face of the daily hurricane blast of nonsense and criminality from the Oval Office. Could you please find the strength to come out of retirement and help organize a shadow government using our best communicators. We need an organized and strong message to counter the Orange Dictator. We need people like Jasmine Crockett, Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar, and a dozen other people organized to get out there and bring our message to people. We need a highly competent modern communication genius to get the message placed and pounded in, daily. I feel like Princess Leia pleading with Obiwan Kemobi, but this seems to be an all hands on deck moment. Think it over, please.
A second thought - Elon's minions are his minions regardless of age. Let's not sink to the level of throwing everyone into the same stereotype. I know plenty of 22 year old techies that are appalled at him and his actions.
A couple of things - first of all considering the current 5-alarm fire it is incumbent on us to know that "Christian Nationalists are outnumbered 2 to 1" so there is support out there for pushing back and more importantly that 4 of 10 WCN are okay with violence to meet their goals - we need to be prepared for that. Mentally and strategically. It should be part of the thinking when responding to what's going on. Are mass protests going to be organized? Then we better be thinking about how to protect the protesters from the 4 out of 10 that think they are "righteous" to commit violence.
I agree, we have to understand why/how we got to this place where 49.9% voted for Trump &Co. White nationalism underpins and gives cover to violence and cruelty. We have to call it out --. There are currently 31 + lawsuits dealing with Constitutional issues with more coming every day.
trump 77,283,109 votes, or 49.79% of total votes cast 2024; that's < 1/3 possible votes had all eligible voters voted - nearly 90 million eligible voters stayed home.
Whaaat? Am I understanding you to say that it's not worthwhile to learn about some of the _why_ of what's going on even as we learn about the _what_ and the _how_?
In your schooling, did you not take multiple courses in a single semester and over the extent of your matriculation that complemented and supplemented one another to enable you to form a broader and deeper understanding of both specific subject matter and the world around us?
Hal, I'm not sure if you are even aware of the national and personal crises facing our citizens and the administration. I can conclude with 2 possibilities: 1) You are too lazy (or scared) to look at the situations objectively, or 2) You are a disgruntled malcontent whose sole purpose is trolling and derailing the resistance.
"Hal, I'm not sure if you are even aware of the national and personal crises facing our citizens and the administration."
David, I truly don't care what you think with regards to my "awareness" of national and personal crises. All I know is that you haven't listed anything specific about what you perceive to be national or personal crises. A lot of rhetoric, but no substance.
I can conclude with 2 possibilities: 1) You are unable to list things you think are issues worth discussing, or 2) You are unwilling to do such.
I think you may be at the wrong site. Would you prefer the understanding that these Fascist wannabes are not bright enough to be even Hitler Lite? They are thugs with weapons. And why are you here? Was this your assignment from the stumble bums led by a demented, besotted, 34 time felon, and adjudicated faux president and an Afrikaner who is an idiot savant and Fascist bent on revenging our and Europe's rôle in taking down a racist, extremely malevolent regime that his parents were deeply involved in; is that why you are here being toddler "confrontational?'
Because I choose to be here and I paid for the subscription. I am assuming you choose to be here as well.
"Was this your assignment from the stumble bums led by a demented, besotted, 34 time felon, and adjudicated faux president and an Afrikaner who is an idiot savant and Fascist bent on revenging our and Europe's rôle in taking down a racist, extremely malevolent regime that his parents were deeply involved in; is that why you are here being toddler "confrontational?'"
That's the ticket - personal insults against anyone who disagrees with your worldview and use time-honored rhetoric to somehow make a point. Priceless.
I would like to see an acknowledgement that white Christian nationalists are Christian in name only. They do not hold Christian values in line with the teachings of Jesus
If you listened to the interview, Dr Jones acknowledges that White Christian Nationalism is a historical part of the view of Christianity in this country (similar arguments were made in Southern churches leading up to the Civil War), but it is not the correct view as it ignore Jesus' teachings, and it has not been a part of the teachings of most of the Church establishment.
Sadly, Sharon, I've seen scant evidence of Christ-ian values as promoted by a brown eyed, dark skinned Jesus who had the audacity to challenge the leadership of an empire run amok.
This is a "burn down the country to save it" attitude. This utterly ignores that our country has become strong and generous due to its diversity. We have vastly benefited from people who came here to work and contribute to our democracy. It has made us strong, the envy of the rest of the world.
In the Democratic Party, no one is forcing you to believe anything they say. You can be one of them or you can go somewhere else. My guess is that you are conservative. That’s fine. Just don’t stuff it down my throat, which is what is happening right now.
We can have diversity of thought provided that it isn't shoved down people's throats. It's good for us to exchange ideas. Forcing them on other people is something else.
"We can have diversity of thought provided that it isn't shoved down people's throats."
Completely agree. It's just that I don't see the Democratic Party allowing diversity of thought. For pretty much everything else, yes, but not on how you think.
Speaker of the House Mike Johnson is a proud Christian Nationalist who does not hide his beliefs....some of us have been following this movement for several years and I am grateful for your interview with Dr. Jones.
Phenomenal interview! I'm a huge fan of both of you! Thanks so much for helping us better understand the religious and political connections to White Christian Nationalism. Jenn, fabulous questions! Dr Jones, thank you for your continued important work!
As a white Southern Christian who has left the Southern Baptist Church and now attends a progressive-leaning church (Wilshire Baptist, Dallas, where I met Dr Jones), I so appreciate knowing that 2/3 of us are for a pluralistic society:) We must continue to be vocal and push back against the injustice we see happening.
I thought I tapped Liked for your comment earlier! As new messages arrive while I am typing with one finger and squinting to see what I’m writing, I sometimes am carried to a different locations in these valuable comments.
Why don’t Democrats start impeachment proceedings against Scott Bessent for illegally allowing Musk access to Treasury payment systems? Same for Marco Rubio closing AID.
Jen, thank you for this interview with Dr. Jones. I'm glad there's a startup response to white Christian nationalism and that defines it separately from Christianity. Two-thirds of Americans need to awaken and get activated to counteract this undemocratic, fascist and anti-Constitutional movement that is currently destroying our republic.
There are 3 open seats with special elections NY-21 and FL-1 FLA-6 the general in FLA is April 1. The NY general election date has not been set. Win 1 we narrow the republican majority in the house and change the narrative. Win 3 and Jeffries is speaker. Pundits claiming these are red districts are not measuring current sentiment. There’s a 100% chance of losing if we don’t try. Blake Gendebien is out of central casting as a candidate and is vice chair of one of the country’s largest producer coops, meaning he has huge networks
Yes, Patricia, they do use God’s name for their financial and powerful benefits. Still, it is my hope that God Himself will be in charge and will help us work through this and save people as well as help us and guide us to restore our democracy.
True. I was shocked at reading of trials and controls in the early days of our country, the power of governors, and so much I never knew existed. If I could recall the name of the book, I would share it. I never would have believed that such attitudes then were considered part of Christianity. Lives were ruined. Some lives were lost.
Today, Day 16 of the fascist Coup against America, 300 very angry marchers from across progressive groups showed up at the Rhode Island State House in windy, 20 degree weather.
They made angry speeches and pledged solidarity. Few knew each other before the march.
This is how our nation wide protest movement starts. Small numbers will multiply exponentially. There is so much to be angry about.
And when we see the backlash from Trump and his military, be prepared to make "good trouble". We are not afraid.
Another aspect of this is that they are also migrating to places like Montana and Idaho and shifting our politics. Montana, once a strong Democratic state, turned completely red at the national level in this election. Though it would take a closer analysis of vote composition, those of us living here feel that the rapid growth in the state has been driven disproportionately by people leaning strongly to the right. Case in point, a school secretary told me a few years ago, that numerous calls had come from out-of-staters contemplating purchasing homes, asking if the public school taught critical race theory.
It is nice to know a receptive audience lives in a bridge population within red states that can act as a counterweight against the negative elements of Christian Nationalism.
It is cause for hope.
The whole notion that the GOP is not even pretending to care that aid was suddenly and immediately cut off to millions who are starving or in need of life saving medication - is alarming - and yet they "supposedly" represent a heavily Christian voting base.
Millions will suffer and die and they do not even blink an eye.
It is so very twisted.
Also no one seems to want to touch the topic that Trump has allies in the far right elsewhere who have similar sentiments where identity and what they consider their right overshadows all morality with little concern for the suffering of others.
No one is mentioning Trump's statement about Gaza yesterday.
There’s nothing Christlike in Christian Nationalism. Like Nazi Germany the German Christians (Deutsche Christen) were a movement within the Protestant Church of Germany with the aim of changing traditional Christian teachings to align with the ideology of Nazism and its anti-Jewish policies. This is what I see in the US now mixed in with rhetoric and influence of the tech bros that scare the GOP into following their agenda.
Jennifer, this would all be very interesting in an academic seminar setting, with graduate students taking notes, all nodding and clucking together. But with the current 5-alarm shitfire blazing uncontrolled in Washington --- the destruction of USAID, the subversion of the Treasury Department and OPM by a bunch of 22-year-old Muskhole zealots without security clearances gaining access to classified information, the projected end of the Education Department, the elimination of OSHA, the subjugation of Constitutional order and separation of powers by a dumb tyrant determined to make America Hungary again.....I don't think this is the right focus for our energies right now. At least it's not for me.
Please give much more space to how we can use lawsuits to gum up the works of this Hitler Lite regime the American people were stupid enough to actually send back to the White House again.
I think we can, in effect, walk and chew gum concerning the current crisis in Washington and the underlying support of Trumpism. This was a fascinating discussion.
Absolutely agree, Ann. I believe perspective is important - both for knowledge AND morale - ESPECIALLY now.
yes and, Hitler took down democracy in 53 days
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/01/hitler-germany-constitution-authoritarianism/681233/?gift=3H26L_XP4eSFyS17ijvoyrOGqujwp5miVJAdsPi18vU&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
Ann, I must learn, maybe in this fourth quarter of a century or later, to make statements to the point as you do well. Thank you.
Corbin, the christian attitude is germaine(sp?) to our current problem and needs to be understood in order to show what got us here.....we need to know why americans have been idiofied.
It's germane.
Thank you !
I understand your point Corbin, but doesn't this information make us better prepared as we talk with our neighbors and community about the injustices we see happening? Did you actually watch and listen? Bringing about grassroots change begins with understanding the people supporting these policies. A little compassion, even when facing your political adversary, helps. Ignorance is a huge factor here.
I did indeed. But none of this is going to help with the lawsuits, demonstrations and non-compliance with fascism that is needed right now. We need much more information about active resistance.
We are dealing with an organized insurrection and we must come to that fight with the proper weapons NOW.
it's a coup. It took Hitler 53 days to kill Germany's democracy, but unelected foreign-born private citizen Elon Musk's team is rewriting the code that keeps the country running.
https://newrepublic.com/post/191176/elon-musk-treasury-takeover-dangerous
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/musk-cronies-dive-into-treasury-dept-payments-code-base/sharetoken/0dfe0e54-939e-47c3-91a5-4657b8b320ab
https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-associate-bfs-federal-payment-system/
Some of us function from a place where as much information as possible helps us to know what to do next. We need all of it...
I am glad you mentioned the law suits. Yesterday we heard and read more about those. I feel the need to know the updates as well. There is much to keep straight. I hope we win the suits and can protect people who participate in doing their jobs within those suits. I hope we can protect their jobs.
Frankly I fear even the corrupt court can't stop him.
My concern about the lawsuits is that Trump and Company will simply ignore them. Especially now that Trump has total immunity for any “official” acts as president. I would love to hear someone speak to that and what we can do to make sure law still means something in this country.
The plan is to
- Move so fast the courts can't keep up
- Ignore the courts and the rule of law generally (the "maga" right has been doing this for a while -- e.g. - https://www.reuters.com/article/world/us/us-senate-confirms-trump-nominee-who-defied-subpoena-to-lead-budget-office-idUSKCN24L2SB/
Curtis Yarvin, a writer influencing the "new right" (JD Vance is reportedly a fan), has written in his "butterfly revolution" that the "rebooting" of the US government should go something like this
Butterfly Revolution Step 1: Campaign on Autocracy
Butterfly Revolution Step 2: Purge the Bureaucracy
Butterfly Revolution Step 3: Ignore the Courts
Butterfly Revolution Step 4: Co-Opt the Congress
Butterfly Revolution Step 5: Centralise Police and Powers
Butterfly Revolution Step 6: Shut Down Elite Media and Academic Institutions
Butterfly Revolution Step 7: Turn Out the People
Found the above summary in the notes on
"DARK GOTHIC MAGA: How Tech Billionaires Plan to Destroy America"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RpPTRcz1no
The video creator acknowledges outlining the conspiracy makes her sound crazy. But her citations are many, and include the work of Gil Duran, a reputable journalist who's been covering this beat for a while:
https://www.thenerdreich.com/reboot-elon-musk-ceo-dictator-doge
"Yarvin wrote that in a second term, Trump could appoint a different person to act as the nation’s “CEO.” This CEO would be enabled to run roughshod over the federal government, with Trump in the background as “chairman of the board.” The metaphors clarify the core idea: Run the government as a rogue corporation rather than a public institution beholden to the rules of democracy.
"Trump himself will not be the brain …He will not be the CEO. He will be the chairman of the board—he will select the CEO (an experienced executive). This process, which obviously has to be televised, will be complete by his inauguration—at which the transition to the next regime will start immediately."
This CEO will bring a new radical new style of leadership to the federal government:
"The CEO he picks will run the executive branch without any interference from the Congress or courts, probably also taking over state and local governments. Most existing important institutions, public and private, will be shut down and replaced with new and efficient systems. Trump will be monitoring this CEO’s performance, again on TV, and can fire him if need be."
(The Nerd Reich newsletter is free to subscribe.)
Er: as regards "christian" nationalism (haven't found anything Christ-like about their actions or goals) nationalism -- yes they're definitely a force and may be collaborating with the "nerd reich" -- e.g., Elon Musk to get what they want.
But imo Musk is far more dangerous at the moment.
Barbara, thank you for sharing that concern. In spite of having lawsuits, I believe we all have the same concern you have, of law being meaningless because he has wheedled out of them by twisting his way into controlling or owning many of the people who have disallowed them, including part of the Supreme Court. In some ways, I wonder if he simply laughed and think that’s going to keep us busy, While believing that we cannot touch him by suits. I hope that is not the case.
Your reminder of the adjective “official” In describing which business of his at the White House Will not have to be held accountable, Is crucial. I interpret that as meaning that judges and justices hold and retain the right to determine which business or acts he does or has done there, or while in office, remain at their jurisdiction, not his. Could the majority of the supreme Supreme Court members rightfully determine that in some instances, he was acting according to his personal wishes rather than his professional or legal position and obligation? It seems to me that they could stop him that way. In order to do that we need enough people in the Supreme Court, who will abide by what is right and truly uphold the Constitution of the United States as it is their job to do. While we do have some wonderful people on the Supreme Court, I wish I could trust each one of them. We need everyone of them to stand up for what is right, and to reverse that ruling which gives him immense freedom, freedom that is foreign to the checks and balances we have written in our Constitution. Perhaps these lawsuits will awaken that realization.
One way to understand Corbin’s comments is that we’re facing a very real danger right now in the short-term, while the above video is aspiring to something that’s long-term. That’s all very noble and admirable, but the reality is that right now the neighborhood is burning down with 100-mile-an-hour winds coming toward our homes; so a lot of shouting and pounding on doors is needed. Now. With less concern about hurting feelings. “Political adversary” is an interesting way to describe it. Since Trump came onto the political scene, current events have transcended politics. With that word, there’s a sense of a known process with strategies that all of us can focus on, and a general feeling that everyone means well even if we disagree with them. That doesn’t describe the current reality. We’re entering an age that’s new even for the experts. There have been many dictatorships throughout history, but none of them had the peculiar role that America plays in today’s world…
yes, more of this.
Because trump is being used as a distraction. I believe rn that even the terrifying "christian" nationalists, "new apostolic reformation," and/or christofascists are a distraction. They have power, but nothing like what unelected foreign-born private citizen billionaire nazi-saluting Elon Musk has. He's got granular, down-to-the-individual level control of the US Treasury.
https://newrepublic.com/post/191176/elon-musk-treasury-takeover-dangerous
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/musk-cronies-dive-into-treasury-dept-payments-code-base/sharetoken/0dfe0e54-939e-47c3-91a5-4657b8b320ab
https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-associate-bfs-federal-payment-system/
I agree it’s all important to understand. The white christian nationalists are the source of most of what is happening now. Project 2025, written by these extreme “christofascists”, is the playbook Trump is following. He has his greed along with his racist and vengeful agenda driving him now, but he isn’t interested in theocracy. The christian nationalists are using him to remove all the democratic powers to resist and then install their extremist theocratic beliefs as the law of the land. Then they will push Trump aside and put Russell Vought, J.D. Vance and Mike Johnson into the Council of Commanders, the inner circle of government.
We have to get Democrats and other Americans who support a pluralistic society to push our leaders to go in harms way and challenge this descent into darkness. Here is a letter I sent to former VP Harris this morning: Dear Madam VP (former) - I am writing as a former and current supporter. We are in the worst crisis our Nation has faced since the Civil War and our Democratic leaders are floundering in the face of the daily hurricane blast of nonsense and criminality from the Oval Office. Could you please find the strength to come out of retirement and help organize a shadow government using our best communicators. We need an organized and strong message to counter the Orange Dictator. We need people like Jasmine Crockett, Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar, and a dozen other people organized to get out there and bring our message to people. We need a highly competent modern communication genius to get the message placed and pounded in, daily. I feel like Princess Leia pleading with Obiwan Kemobi, but this seems to be an all hands on deck moment. Think it over, please.
A second thought - Elon's minions are his minions regardless of age. Let's not sink to the level of throwing everyone into the same stereotype. I know plenty of 22 year old techies that are appalled at him and his actions.
A couple of things - first of all considering the current 5-alarm fire it is incumbent on us to know that "Christian Nationalists are outnumbered 2 to 1" so there is support out there for pushing back and more importantly that 4 of 10 WCN are okay with violence to meet their goals - we need to be prepared for that. Mentally and strategically. It should be part of the thinking when responding to what's going on. Are mass protests going to be organized? Then we better be thinking about how to protect the protesters from the 4 out of 10 that think they are "righteous" to commit violence.
yes and it's the tech bro controlling the federal government's pursestrings who is by far and away the biggest threat at the moment
I agree, we have to understand why/how we got to this place where 49.9% voted for Trump &Co. White nationalism underpins and gives cover to violence and cruelty. We have to call it out --. There are currently 31 + lawsuits dealing with Constitutional issues with more coming every day.
less than 1/3 of the electorate.
trump 77,283,109 votes, or 49.79% of total votes cast 2024; that's < 1/3 possible votes had all eligible voters voted - nearly 90 million eligible voters stayed home.
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2024-11-15/how-many-people-didnt-vote-in-the-2024-election
"245 million Americans were eligible to vote in the 2024 general election."
https://www.cookpolitical.com/vote-tracker/2024/electoral-college
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/the-size-of-donald-trumps-2024-election-victory-explained-in-5-charts
Whaaat? Am I understanding you to say that it's not worthwhile to learn about some of the _why_ of what's going on even as we learn about the _what_ and the _how_?
In your schooling, did you not take multiple courses in a single semester and over the extent of your matriculation that complemented and supplemented one another to enable you to form a broader and deeper understanding of both specific subject matter and the world around us?
We need action, not talk, not demonstrations, not articles, not letters to Congress. Are we willing to go to jail to fight the dictator?
I agree with you, Corbin. We don't have time to talk things over. We must launch judicial attack on that which Trump is clearly illegally proceeding.
We need to fight fire with fire, NOW!
I agree 100%
"But with the current 5-alarm shitfire blazing uncontrolled in Washington..."
The only "5-alarm shitfire" going on is within liberal circles like this forum.
"Please give much more space to how we can use lawsuits to gum up the works of this Hitler Lite regime..."
Please elaborate how Trump or his regime is "Hitler Lite" - inquiring minds want to know.
Hal, I'm not sure if you are even aware of the national and personal crises facing our citizens and the administration. I can conclude with 2 possibilities: 1) You are too lazy (or scared) to look at the situations objectively, or 2) You are a disgruntled malcontent whose sole purpose is trolling and derailing the resistance.
Reply AGAIN to David Gardiner: You get 1,000 👎🏽
"Hal, I'm not sure if you are even aware of the national and personal crises facing our citizens and the administration."
David, I truly don't care what you think with regards to my "awareness" of national and personal crises. All I know is that you haven't listed anything specific about what you perceive to be national or personal crises. A lot of rhetoric, but no substance.
I can conclude with 2 possibilities: 1) You are unable to list things you think are issues worth discussing, or 2) You are unwilling to do such.
You get 1,000 👎🏽
I don't know what happened, but I definitely clicked on reply to David Gardiner. Don't know why it's shown like this.
You only get one vote.
Read "In the Garden of the Beast" by Eric Larson
You should see the video "The Deadly Isms | S1 Ep 1: Up From Totalitarianism" on YouTube:
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkHStde5rrk&t=1s
I think you may be at the wrong site. Would you prefer the understanding that these Fascist wannabes are not bright enough to be even Hitler Lite? They are thugs with weapons. And why are you here? Was this your assignment from the stumble bums led by a demented, besotted, 34 time felon, and adjudicated faux president and an Afrikaner who is an idiot savant and Fascist bent on revenging our and Europe's rôle in taking down a racist, extremely malevolent regime that his parents were deeply involved in; is that why you are here being toddler "confrontational?'
"I think you may be at the wrong site."
Is this not "The Contrarian"?
"And why are you here?"
Because I choose to be here and I paid for the subscription. I am assuming you choose to be here as well.
"Was this your assignment from the stumble bums led by a demented, besotted, 34 time felon, and adjudicated faux president and an Afrikaner who is an idiot savant and Fascist bent on revenging our and Europe's rôle in taking down a racist, extremely malevolent regime that his parents were deeply involved in; is that why you are here being toddler "confrontational?'"
That's the ticket - personal insults against anyone who disagrees with your worldview and use time-honored rhetoric to somehow make a point. Priceless.
I would like to see an acknowledgement that white Christian nationalists are Christian in name only. They do not hold Christian values in line with the teachings of Jesus
If you listened to the interview, Dr Jones acknowledges that White Christian Nationalism is a historical part of the view of Christianity in this country (similar arguments were made in Southern churches leading up to the Civil War), but it is not the correct view as it ignore Jesus' teachings, and it has not been a part of the teachings of most of the Church establishment.
Sadly, Sharon, I've seen scant evidence of Christ-ian values as promoted by a brown eyed, dark skinned Jesus who had the audacity to challenge the leadership of an empire run amok.
This is a "burn down the country to save it" attitude. This utterly ignores that our country has become strong and generous due to its diversity. We have vastly benefited from people who came here to work and contribute to our democracy. It has made us strong, the envy of the rest of the world.
In the Democratic Party, no one is forcing you to believe anything they say. You can be one of them or you can go somewhere else. My guess is that you are conservative. That’s fine. Just don’t stuff it down my throat, which is what is happening right now.
"This utterly ignores that our country has become strong and generous due to its diversity."
That doesn't apply to diversity of thought, does it?
We can have diversity of thought provided that it isn't shoved down people's throats. It's good for us to exchange ideas. Forcing them on other people is something else.
"We can have diversity of thought provided that it isn't shoved down people's throats."
Completely agree. It's just that I don't see the Democratic Party allowing diversity of thought. For pretty much everything else, yes, but not on how you think.
I think Weiss and her Free Press is a better fit for you.
I already have a subscription to them, but thank you for the suggestion.
Speaker of the House Mike Johnson is a proud Christian Nationalist who does not hide his beliefs....some of us have been following this movement for several years and I am grateful for your interview with Dr. Jones.
Phenomenal interview! I'm a huge fan of both of you! Thanks so much for helping us better understand the religious and political connections to White Christian Nationalism. Jenn, fabulous questions! Dr Jones, thank you for your continued important work!
As a white Southern Christian who has left the Southern Baptist Church and now attends a progressive-leaning church (Wilshire Baptist, Dallas, where I met Dr Jones), I so appreciate knowing that 2/3 of us are for a pluralistic society:) We must continue to be vocal and push back against the injustice we see happening.
I thought I tapped Liked for your comment earlier! As new messages arrive while I am typing with one finger and squinting to see what I’m writing, I sometimes am carried to a different locations in these valuable comments.
Why don’t Democrats start impeachment proceedings against Scott Bessent for illegally allowing Musk access to Treasury payment systems? Same for Marco Rubio closing AID.
Our country is on the line, now! Prosecute them all to the maximum! NOW!
I cannot imagine the horrific time when he was confronted and forced out of his job was protecting our information. I wonder what options he had.
Trump is about as un-Christian as you can get. I don't get it.
Trump is a Heathen but he depends on conservative Christians for votes.
Jen, thank you for this interview with Dr. Jones. I'm glad there's a startup response to white Christian nationalism and that defines it separately from Christianity. Two-thirds of Americans need to awaken and get activated to counteract this undemocratic, fascist and anti-Constitutional movement that is currently destroying our republic.
There are 3 open seats with special elections NY-21 and FL-1 FLA-6 the general in FLA is April 1. The NY general election date has not been set. Win 1 we narrow the republican majority in the house and change the narrative. Win 3 and Jeffries is speaker. Pundits claiming these are red districts are not measuring current sentiment. There’s a 100% chance of losing if we don’t try. Blake Gendebien is out of central casting as a candidate and is vice chair of one of the country’s largest producer coops, meaning he has huge networks
We don’t have to wait to 2026!
Thank you for this great interview with Robby Jones! I particularly liked your final comments, Ms. Rubin!
In order to defeat the beasts we need to understand them. This is a valuable and fascinating interview.
I’m exhausted, this coup is so Life of Brian!
It's hard to look at the bright side of life!
Crucifixion?! Stay to your right!
Christians have a violent past and now present.
Not all of us by a LOOOOONG shot. Only some, and they are the minority.
Wish you were right.......oh, meaning correct.
they do things for power and money in the name of God.
Yes, Patricia, they do use God’s name for their financial and powerful benefits. Still, it is my hope that God Himself will be in charge and will help us work through this and save people as well as help us and guide us to restore our democracy.
True. I was shocked at reading of trials and controls in the early days of our country, the power of governors, and so much I never knew existed. If I could recall the name of the book, I would share it. I never would have believed that such attitudes then were considered part of Christianity. Lives were ruined. Some lives were lost.
Today, Day 16 of the fascist Coup against America, 300 very angry marchers from across progressive groups showed up at the Rhode Island State House in windy, 20 degree weather.
They made angry speeches and pledged solidarity. Few knew each other before the march.
This is how our nation wide protest movement starts. Small numbers will multiply exponentially. There is so much to be angry about.
And when we see the backlash from Trump and his military, be prepared to make "good trouble". We are not afraid.
Another aspect of this is that they are also migrating to places like Montana and Idaho and shifting our politics. Montana, once a strong Democratic state, turned completely red at the national level in this election. Though it would take a closer analysis of vote composition, those of us living here feel that the rapid growth in the state has been driven disproportionately by people leaning strongly to the right. Case in point, a school secretary told me a few years ago, that numerous calls had come from out-of-staters contemplating purchasing homes, asking if the public school taught critical race theory.
That is Idaho. We haven't been voting Democrat for a long time, but the results in our RINO/extremist battle is disheartening.
That is completely disappointing.
It is nice to know a receptive audience lives in a bridge population within red states that can act as a counterweight against the negative elements of Christian Nationalism.
It is cause for hope.
The whole notion that the GOP is not even pretending to care that aid was suddenly and immediately cut off to millions who are starving or in need of life saving medication - is alarming - and yet they "supposedly" represent a heavily Christian voting base.
Millions will suffer and die and they do not even blink an eye.
It is so very twisted.
Also no one seems to want to touch the topic that Trump has allies in the far right elsewhere who have similar sentiments where identity and what they consider their right overshadows all morality with little concern for the suffering of others.
No one is mentioning Trump's statement about Gaza yesterday.
It is noticeably absent everywhere on substack.
There’s nothing Christlike in Christian Nationalism. Like Nazi Germany the German Christians (Deutsche Christen) were a movement within the Protestant Church of Germany with the aim of changing traditional Christian teachings to align with the ideology of Nazism and its anti-Jewish policies. This is what I see in the US now mixed in with rhetoric and influence of the tech bros that scare the GOP into following their agenda.