We could start by actually enforcing the ban on churches getting involved with political campaign activity and start removing their tax-exemption status. Taxpayers should not be subsidizing their nonsense, and especially not their racism and anti-democratic attacks.
There is a problem with that. Removing churches' tax-exempt status would also hurt Black and Hispanic churches, the former of which, almost unanimously, do not support Trump, and have zero reason to. Plus, for both, the church is a vital part of whatever community is left. I speak from a certain degree of experience, as a White man in an interracial marriage who has been on the inside and involved in these same churches.
Please, please do not misunderstand. I share the same hostility toward *so-called* Christians and their churches. I'm saying if such revocation were to be effective as even a single front in this multi-pronged battle ('war' is more like it, though with different weapons), it would have to be targeted more effectively than going after all churches - and is there even a ban on churches' involvement in politics on the books?
I'm willing to discuss further, with you or anyone reading this, and to brainstorm ideas.
One more thing: I've seen up close that there can be a cynicism in minority communities that I normally have no patience for, but is understandable, given the history. Democracy, even flawed, has only existed for Blacks for 60 years, not 250. I really would like to see more involvement- on that front. Both ways. Again, any ideas?
Please excuse the long-winded and possibly overly personal response, but I felt it necessary to point some of these things out. Thanks for listening.
The ban should be enforced, and people could still continue to congregate as they please. Regarding taxes, if you want to exempt churches, which are private associations, you should do the same for every association (Muslim, Bundist, LGBTQ, etc.). To the extent that people pushing for tax exemptions for churches want to curtail programs for everyone else, I call it hypocrisy. They should be ashamed of themselves. Disclaimer: I am not white, but an observant Christian. (I know, for white American I am an oxymoron).
I intend to do that, Virginia. Like everyone else here, I don't have all the answers, just a few strong convictions on a variety of issues. We won't win 'em all, but we will win some - my prayer is that we'll win the vast majority of the most important battles.
Seems like a reasonable way to go to me, Wayne -- and reason is in short supply right now! I have heard that Indivisible is advocating urging Senators 1) No blanket approvals of nominees; 2) Yes to quorum calls and 3) No to unanimous consent. I may try that. But I like how you express you approach as well. I'm in MA so I'm lucky to have good Senators.
Virginia, I live in MD, work in DC (not in gov't), and the vibe in the nation's capital is tense. As for where I live, both Senators are Democratic, but it's a little complicated from where I sit. Larry Hogan was a popular, two-term Republican governor who showed me a whole lot of courage - though I know not everyone is impressed. He ran against the county executive where I live for the Senate, and lost. I am less than impressed by Angela Alsobrooks, but since she's in, I guess we're stuck with her. Again, people have a right to disagree, but she's one I'll be putting plenty of pressure on to do the right thing. Strange as it may seem, I don't think I'd have had to do that with Hogan.
Great strategy by the way. I'll press my way in and join somehow.
Thank you for creating a readable outline of the identifying characteristics of the White Christian Nationalism proponents, and their voting trends.
The colonizers who came to the North American continent (or "New World") were often persecuted religious sects who then persecuted others, resulting in the establishment of many future states.
Ironic that those white Christian Nationalists are exactly the sort that called for the historical Jesus' crucifixion.
These so-called "white christian nationalists" have nothing to do with Christianity as that term is broadly understood. Jesus' life and teachings were not about prejudice, hate or watering trees with the blood of your enemies. You won't find that in mainstream Christian doctrine anywhere.
These people are not Christians at all and do not deserve to be referred to as such. They are something else, and I propose a label that more accurately describes these people and their beliefs:
That is true, but as you heard Dr Jones acknowledge, this "version" of Christianity has been around for a long time here. Read his book "White Too Long" where he describes the history of alternative theology used by Southern churches both leading up to and in the aftermath of the Civil War. I used to attend a Southern Baptist church (as did Dr Jones)--which was formed to allow for the continuance of slavery. Being a Christian doesn't necessarily mean one's theology is 100% correct.
The SBC today is still struggling to renounce its sinful past, and is dealing with other issues related to trestment of women and LGBTQ. I left years ago and am attending a progressive church which believes strongly in Jesus's teachings.
Finally, I would add that none of us are perfect. There are many fine Christians I know who have subscribed to the political views of White Christian Nationalism--theocracy, lack of respect for pluralism/separation of church/state, etc. Many of them have been misled and/or lied to. They are mostly good people who are ignorant of the truth. There is another group, however "going along for the ride" who are basically agnostic, but are supporting the movement for their own ends.
I am a retired Christian pastor. I have shared my faith for over 50 years. I served United Methodist churches for 42 years. Several ideas fly in the face of what Christian nationalist say they believe.Jesus did not select white males as his disciples. He was born a Jew, in the middle east. Our pictures of a white Jesus came about centuries after his death and resurrection. His early followers were mostly people of the middle east and not white Europeans. The other is that Jesus and scripture does not support a nation. A key Bible passage is John 3:16. It makes a universal statement: "For God so loved the world. . ." Notice it is all the world and I would contend all of creation. Also Jesus gave his life without taking any others. Jesus was God teaching us that violence is not the way of love. Also all people with or without religious faith are my kin, my brothers and sisters. Hate against any of them, refusal to listen to them and a desire to control them are all contrary to my understanding of Jesus' call on my life.
Thank you for your usual insightful, intelligent, factual piece on white nationalism. Such writing is the reason I followed you from the WAPO to The Contrarian. I believe the fact that only 30% of our fellow Americans harbor such views was offered to us as a token of hope, but as I remember history, only 37% of Germans were Nazis, but look what evil Hitler wrought with that small subset of the population. We should be truly frightened.
A sane and logical argument. Unfortunately, sanity and logic are in short supply, and while some percentage of Republicans aren't white christian nationalists, they unfortunately still continue to throw their lot in with them to preserve power and influence for other shared Republican ideals (e.g. lower taxes on businesses, privatization, etc). Until we see a sizeable portion of them starting to vote Democratic regularly (assuming we'll continue to have elections), I don't foresee them switching sides. They've made their deal with the devil, and they aren't looking long term -- they're just in it for the quick profit.
This and a number of the other discussions here and elsewhere have given me the sort of pause that I used to get as a senior strategic analyst (and professional historian) when mulling over something that didn't quite add up (such Iraq after 9/11...).
I am going to suggest that when you take a step back, you might begin to realize that this is a Trump Branding sort of coup d'etat, where the God Emperor Donald the First is simply loaning out his name -- and "office" -- to a number of subcontractors so as to allow them to run wild and amuck through whatever part of the US Government that their hearts desire takes them, and rape, pillage, and plunder it.
Keep in mind that the God Emperor Donald the First is not exactly an intellectual heavyweight or noted for any sense of coherence when it comes to planning and organization. Hence, the Heritage Foundation and the other wackadoodle "think tanks" in Cloud Cuckoo Land, along with the various oligarchs -- including a real, genuine Nazi, Elmo Muskrat for example -- and Christian Nationalists to do the dirty work.
I mean, the God emperor Donald the First even knowing that McKinley was a US president in the first place? Please, Little Stevie Miller or someone of the ilk wrote that set of notes for Trump. And, so forth and so on. It is doubtful that Trump even had much of an idea regarding the endless Executive Orders he signed -- most of which make a former Pentagon staffer like me cringe as to just how poorly they are written and thought out.
At any rate, once you begin to sense the "branding" aspect of this coup d'etat and the lack of any real strategy or coherence or coordination among the various groups along with the obvious fact the God Emperor Donald the First is delusional, you begin to see that Clean Up on Aisle 47 is going to be a lot more difficult than some realize.
I am sorry that I have lived this long to see this happen to the country that I served for just under 45 years in both uniform and as a civilian in DOD.
I agree with you about the branding; it's pretty much Trump's MO. I beg to differ about lack of strategy or coherence. Russell Vought and Project 2025 have taken care of that part with great speed and efficiency. Clean up on aisle 47 may never come.
The general scheme of maneuver might be from Vought and so forth, but the minions are running in all directions looting, pillaging, and generally acting like the genuine assholes that they are with little regard for what is going to happen when the fight suddenly shifts and there are consequences.
Basically, hard to see much in the way of contingency plans or when the, OH FUCK! moment arrives.
I am angry at the democrats for not bringing all of this front and center during the campaign. Mentioning Project 2025 occasionally, with no background or explanation cost the election.
All of your ideas are well and good assuming that we ever have another election going forward. I am not hopeful that will happen. Especially given the cowardice of Vichy Democrats with a few exceptions. AOC, Jasmine Crockett, Bernie, and a handful of others. The rest disgust me with their cowardice.
White Christian Nationalism seem to be just another term for fascism. There is nothing Christian about any of it. True Christianity accepts everyone, regardless of their race, sex, religion, or political views. Christian Nationalists want to force their extremely uninformed and backward ideas on everyone and are not afraid to flout the Constitution to do so. They reject Science, any form of real and functioning government, different religious affiliations, and the idea that we as a nation need to be able to help other countries with basic needs such as food, water, education on farming in our era of climate change, and helping to overcome the misogynistic views that are keeping so many women worldwide, under the thumb of tyranny and violence. I find it absolutely appalling that so many are delighting in Musk’s and Trumps efforts to basically destroy our government. They don’t seem to realize that real people with kids and mortgages are losing not only their jobs, but in many cases their protection from exposure to those who are very willing to inflict maximum harm, and even death in some cases. Our country is not going to be safe from a multitude of threats. There will be massive job losses, breakdowns in basic services to those that receive Medicare, Medicaid and disability. There will be supply chain issues, unmanageable inflation, increased danger from hostile governments, lack of support from other nations as we will now be regarded as a rouge nation, cyberthreats will increase, and global warming will continue to wreak havoc with our communities, especially since FEMA will be abolished. We have two sex offenders in prominent positions now. Convicted felon Trump and Hegseth, and they will continue to inflict their damage on women and minorities whenever they can. We have a worthless Republican Congress who is looking the other way as our country is literally being destroyed. They are allowing perhaps the most corrupt and unqualified administration since our beginning as a free nation, to adhere to an unchecked, totally corrupt, and extremely dangerous President. All in the name of Christian Nationalism.
It seems to me the tech bros are really in charge at the moment. Those people are either atheists or fake Christians. Like Vance who only recently converted to Catholicism, but previously was an acolyte of atheist tech bros.
Also, the far right Catholics are not exactly on good terms with other far right Christians.
I wonder if there are ways to exploit some of those divisions. These groups all want power for themselves and are only on the same side because they need to be.
Christian nationalism has unfortunately been embedded into some state constitutions. For instance the abortion ban in my state comes directly from the Presbyterian doctrine. It was written by a lawyer who attends a Presbyterian church and it violates much of the U.S. Constitution. A church doctrine has no place in a state constitution or the U.S. Constitution or in public education or medicine. The wording of the ban is scientifically unfounded to begin with. So when you say they are science deniers indeed they are.
America must reject this doctrine of authoritarianism. The authoritarians must be defeated at every turn from book banning, forcing public school kids to read the bible or recite the 10 Commandments. We look to The Contrarian to give us guidance and tips as to how to defeat it.
We could start by actually enforcing the ban on churches getting involved with political campaign activity and start removing their tax-exemption status. Taxpayers should not be subsidizing their nonsense, and especially not their racism and anti-democratic attacks.
There is a problem with that. Removing churches' tax-exempt status would also hurt Black and Hispanic churches, the former of which, almost unanimously, do not support Trump, and have zero reason to. Plus, for both, the church is a vital part of whatever community is left. I speak from a certain degree of experience, as a White man in an interracial marriage who has been on the inside and involved in these same churches.
Please, please do not misunderstand. I share the same hostility toward *so-called* Christians and their churches. I'm saying if such revocation were to be effective as even a single front in this multi-pronged battle ('war' is more like it, though with different weapons), it would have to be targeted more effectively than going after all churches - and is there even a ban on churches' involvement in politics on the books?
I'm willing to discuss further, with you or anyone reading this, and to brainstorm ideas.
One more thing: I've seen up close that there can be a cynicism in minority communities that I normally have no patience for, but is understandable, given the history. Democracy, even flawed, has only existed for Blacks for 60 years, not 250. I really would like to see more involvement- on that front. Both ways. Again, any ideas?
Please excuse the long-winded and possibly overly personal response, but I felt it necessary to point some of these things out. Thanks for listening.
The ban should be enforced, and people could still continue to congregate as they please. Regarding taxes, if you want to exempt churches, which are private associations, you should do the same for every association (Muslim, Bundist, LGBTQ, etc.). To the extent that people pushing for tax exemptions for churches want to curtail programs for everyone else, I call it hypocrisy. They should be ashamed of themselves. Disclaimer: I am not white, but an observant Christian. (I know, for white American I am an oxymoron).
Wayne, I am in agreement, though at a loss at what actions to take,. I hope you keep expressing your ideas here.
I intend to do that, Virginia. Like everyone else here, I don't have all the answers, just a few strong convictions on a variety of issues. We won't win 'em all, but we will win some - my prayer is that we'll win the vast majority of the most important battles.
Seems like a reasonable way to go to me, Wayne -- and reason is in short supply right now! I have heard that Indivisible is advocating urging Senators 1) No blanket approvals of nominees; 2) Yes to quorum calls and 3) No to unanimous consent. I may try that. But I like how you express you approach as well. I'm in MA so I'm lucky to have good Senators.
Virginia, I live in MD, work in DC (not in gov't), and the vibe in the nation's capital is tense. As for where I live, both Senators are Democratic, but it's a little complicated from where I sit. Larry Hogan was a popular, two-term Republican governor who showed me a whole lot of courage - though I know not everyone is impressed. He ran against the county executive where I live for the Senate, and lost. I am less than impressed by Angela Alsobrooks, but since she's in, I guess we're stuck with her. Again, people have a right to disagree, but she's one I'll be putting plenty of pressure on to do the right thing. Strange as it may seem, I don't think I'd have had to do that with Hogan.
Great strategy by the way. I'll press my way in and join somehow.
Thank you for creating a readable outline of the identifying characteristics of the White Christian Nationalism proponents, and their voting trends.
The colonizers who came to the North American continent (or "New World") were often persecuted religious sects who then persecuted others, resulting in the establishment of many future states.
Ironic that those white Christian Nationalists are exactly the sort that called for the historical Jesus' crucifixion.
In keeping with Jenn's prior writing about language -https://contrarian.substack.com/p/words-and-phrases-we-could-do-without-3de - this is another place where we need to get the descriptive words right.
These so-called "white christian nationalists" have nothing to do with Christianity as that term is broadly understood. Jesus' life and teachings were not about prejudice, hate or watering trees with the blood of your enemies. You won't find that in mainstream Christian doctrine anywhere.
These people are not Christians at all and do not deserve to be referred to as such. They are something else, and I propose a label that more accurately describes these people and their beliefs:
White Evangelical Racists
That is true, but as you heard Dr Jones acknowledge, this "version" of Christianity has been around for a long time here. Read his book "White Too Long" where he describes the history of alternative theology used by Southern churches both leading up to and in the aftermath of the Civil War. I used to attend a Southern Baptist church (as did Dr Jones)--which was formed to allow for the continuance of slavery. Being a Christian doesn't necessarily mean one's theology is 100% correct.
The SBC today is still struggling to renounce its sinful past, and is dealing with other issues related to trestment of women and LGBTQ. I left years ago and am attending a progressive church which believes strongly in Jesus's teachings.
Finally, I would add that none of us are perfect. There are many fine Christians I know who have subscribed to the political views of White Christian Nationalism--theocracy, lack of respect for pluralism/separation of church/state, etc. Many of them have been misled and/or lied to. They are mostly good people who are ignorant of the truth. There is another group, however "going along for the ride" who are basically agnostic, but are supporting the movement for their own ends.
Nothing changes until Citizen's United is overturned. That's how Musk bought the white house.
I am a retired Christian pastor. I have shared my faith for over 50 years. I served United Methodist churches for 42 years. Several ideas fly in the face of what Christian nationalist say they believe.Jesus did not select white males as his disciples. He was born a Jew, in the middle east. Our pictures of a white Jesus came about centuries after his death and resurrection. His early followers were mostly people of the middle east and not white Europeans. The other is that Jesus and scripture does not support a nation. A key Bible passage is John 3:16. It makes a universal statement: "For God so loved the world. . ." Notice it is all the world and I would contend all of creation. Also Jesus gave his life without taking any others. Jesus was God teaching us that violence is not the way of love. Also all people with or without religious faith are my kin, my brothers and sisters. Hate against any of them, refusal to listen to them and a desire to control them are all contrary to my understanding of Jesus' call on my life.
Amen, brother.
That is true. Have you read Dr. Jones' "White Too Long"? It explains a lot as to the origins of this false theology.
They are our talibans.
Jihadists too
Thank you for your usual insightful, intelligent, factual piece on white nationalism. Such writing is the reason I followed you from the WAPO to The Contrarian. I believe the fact that only 30% of our fellow Americans harbor such views was offered to us as a token of hope, but as I remember history, only 37% of Germans were Nazis, but look what evil Hitler wrought with that small subset of the population. We should be truly frightened.
A sane and logical argument. Unfortunately, sanity and logic are in short supply, and while some percentage of Republicans aren't white christian nationalists, they unfortunately still continue to throw their lot in with them to preserve power and influence for other shared Republican ideals (e.g. lower taxes on businesses, privatization, etc). Until we see a sizeable portion of them starting to vote Democratic regularly (assuming we'll continue to have elections), I don't foresee them switching sides. They've made their deal with the devil, and they aren't looking long term -- they're just in it for the quick profit.
This and a number of the other discussions here and elsewhere have given me the sort of pause that I used to get as a senior strategic analyst (and professional historian) when mulling over something that didn't quite add up (such Iraq after 9/11...).
I am going to suggest that when you take a step back, you might begin to realize that this is a Trump Branding sort of coup d'etat, where the God Emperor Donald the First is simply loaning out his name -- and "office" -- to a number of subcontractors so as to allow them to run wild and amuck through whatever part of the US Government that their hearts desire takes them, and rape, pillage, and plunder it.
Keep in mind that the God Emperor Donald the First is not exactly an intellectual heavyweight or noted for any sense of coherence when it comes to planning and organization. Hence, the Heritage Foundation and the other wackadoodle "think tanks" in Cloud Cuckoo Land, along with the various oligarchs -- including a real, genuine Nazi, Elmo Muskrat for example -- and Christian Nationalists to do the dirty work.
I mean, the God emperor Donald the First even knowing that McKinley was a US president in the first place? Please, Little Stevie Miller or someone of the ilk wrote that set of notes for Trump. And, so forth and so on. It is doubtful that Trump even had much of an idea regarding the endless Executive Orders he signed -- most of which make a former Pentagon staffer like me cringe as to just how poorly they are written and thought out.
At any rate, once you begin to sense the "branding" aspect of this coup d'etat and the lack of any real strategy or coherence or coordination among the various groups along with the obvious fact the God Emperor Donald the First is delusional, you begin to see that Clean Up on Aisle 47 is going to be a lot more difficult than some realize.
I am sorry that I have lived this long to see this happen to the country that I served for just under 45 years in both uniform and as a civilian in DOD.
I agree with you about the branding; it's pretty much Trump's MO. I beg to differ about lack of strategy or coherence. Russell Vought and Project 2025 have taken care of that part with great speed and efficiency. Clean up on aisle 47 may never come.
The general scheme of maneuver might be from Vought and so forth, but the minions are running in all directions looting, pillaging, and generally acting like the genuine assholes that they are with little regard for what is going to happen when the fight suddenly shifts and there are consequences.
Basically, hard to see much in the way of contingency plans or when the, OH FUCK! moment arrives.
I am angry at the democrats for not bringing all of this front and center during the campaign. Mentioning Project 2025 occasionally, with no background or explanation cost the election.
I'm angry at Joe Biden for not going after Trump full bore with everything he could have, including the immunity law that was handed to him.........
Trump also denied having any connection to Project 2025 and was believed.
I call them MAGAots.
All of your ideas are well and good assuming that we ever have another election going forward. I am not hopeful that will happen. Especially given the cowardice of Vichy Democrats with a few exceptions. AOC, Jasmine Crockett, Bernie, and a handful of others. The rest disgust me with their cowardice.
White Christian Nationalism seem to be just another term for fascism. There is nothing Christian about any of it. True Christianity accepts everyone, regardless of their race, sex, religion, or political views. Christian Nationalists want to force their extremely uninformed and backward ideas on everyone and are not afraid to flout the Constitution to do so. They reject Science, any form of real and functioning government, different religious affiliations, and the idea that we as a nation need to be able to help other countries with basic needs such as food, water, education on farming in our era of climate change, and helping to overcome the misogynistic views that are keeping so many women worldwide, under the thumb of tyranny and violence. I find it absolutely appalling that so many are delighting in Musk’s and Trumps efforts to basically destroy our government. They don’t seem to realize that real people with kids and mortgages are losing not only their jobs, but in many cases their protection from exposure to those who are very willing to inflict maximum harm, and even death in some cases. Our country is not going to be safe from a multitude of threats. There will be massive job losses, breakdowns in basic services to those that receive Medicare, Medicaid and disability. There will be supply chain issues, unmanageable inflation, increased danger from hostile governments, lack of support from other nations as we will now be regarded as a rouge nation, cyberthreats will increase, and global warming will continue to wreak havoc with our communities, especially since FEMA will be abolished. We have two sex offenders in prominent positions now. Convicted felon Trump and Hegseth, and they will continue to inflict their damage on women and minorities whenever they can. We have a worthless Republican Congress who is looking the other way as our country is literally being destroyed. They are allowing perhaps the most corrupt and unqualified administration since our beginning as a free nation, to adhere to an unchecked, totally corrupt, and extremely dangerous President. All in the name of Christian Nationalism.
“ when fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross”…whoever said it…it’s happening now.
It seems to me the tech bros are really in charge at the moment. Those people are either atheists or fake Christians. Like Vance who only recently converted to Catholicism, but previously was an acolyte of atheist tech bros.
Also, the far right Catholics are not exactly on good terms with other far right Christians.
I wonder if there are ways to exploit some of those divisions. These groups all want power for themselves and are only on the same side because they need to be.
Christian nationalism has unfortunately been embedded into some state constitutions. For instance the abortion ban in my state comes directly from the Presbyterian doctrine. It was written by a lawyer who attends a Presbyterian church and it violates much of the U.S. Constitution. A church doctrine has no place in a state constitution or the U.S. Constitution or in public education or medicine. The wording of the ban is scientifically unfounded to begin with. So when you say they are science deniers indeed they are.
America must reject this doctrine of authoritarianism. The authoritarians must be defeated at every turn from book banning, forcing public school kids to read the bible or recite the 10 Commandments. We look to The Contrarian to give us guidance and tips as to how to defeat it.
If you are interested in reading further in how we got here, I highly recommend a few titles:
The Kingdom, The Power, and the Glory by Tim Alberta
They Came for the Schools by Mike Hixenbaugh
Jesus and John Wayne by Kristin Kobes Du Mez