Mr. Richer neglects to mention all the trouble that Arizona's DMV has had validating and tracking proof of citizenship when new voters are registered in the state. It caused no small number of citizens to be disenfranchised in state elections and required the state supreme court to re-enfranchise those voters for federal elections. His broader point is correct though, it's the chaos that will do the most damage.
I disagree with the “after Election Day” requirement. Individuals in the military and being on a ship or in a foreign country don’t have the same conveniences that we do living in the US. There needs to be carve outs for them.
The post mark has to be the standard, you can mail something and it takes 2 days or 2 weeks to get there. He just didn’t like winning in 2020 until the absentee ballots got counted…
The military, at sea or in another country vote absentee ballot just like U.S. citizens living in another country. The state officials are required to transmit these ballots no later than 45 days before an election provided the request for a ballot has been made. Some states mail the ballot, some email the ballot. The voter has the responsibility of printing out the ballot, filling it out, signing it, and mailing it back. 45 days is plenty of time to fill out a ballot and mail it back from anywhere in the world.
My immediate thought when I read "In Arizona, where documented proof of citizenship is already required for state elections, 99% of registrants easily comply." was to ask if this means 99% of the people who wanted to register were able to, or does it mean only that 99% of those who weren't discouraged from trying were able to? I have read that those who still use midwives in rural areas, including the large Native American population, and those living near the border areas don't always have easy access to documented birth certificates that meet the standard for recognition. We have never had to carry our citizenship papers around with us in this country, indeed many people may not even have a copy of their birth certificate, which for us would be the only 'citizenship paper' we have.
I live in a very rural area in Arizona 50 miles to the nearest city. If I have to call the Sheriff, it will take him over an hour to get close. My next door neighbor is the Hualapia's (west rim Grand Canyon.)The Hualapia's like all recognized Native American tribes are dual citizens they can vote in their tribal elections and U.S. elections and have been able to vote in Arizona since 1924. Because they are also American citizens and just like anyone born here by a midwife or in a hospital they are issued a birth certificate when they are born. If they do not have a copy or have lost theirs they can send off for a certified copy just like anyone else and they have 12 months a year to do it.
No one forces anyone here to carry around "citizenship" papers. When you register to vote here you provide 3 examples of proof that you were born in the U.S.,that you currently live here to vote, and a birth certificate is one of those requirements just like when you get your drivers license you provide your birth certificate. And it is recorded, so you're only required to provide it once. After that when you vote, you use drivers lic or state issued id. or vote by mail.
As far as "people living near the border not having easy access to documented birth certificates that meet the standard for recognition," the standard for recognition is a state certified birth certificate which they are issued at birth, it's the same in every state, this is not unique to just Arizona. It does not matter which state you were born in it just needs to be certified by that state. Native Americans living along the border have as easy access to getting a copy of their birth certificate as I do, you make a request put a stamp on the envelope and mail in the request or make your request online, it's called being a grown up. Voting is either viewed by a person as an important personal responsibility or it's not, there is no need to infantilize them.
I have voted in Florida, Arkansas, Texas and Arizona, every state has their rules, and people who don't vote always have the same excuses for why they didn't vote, and from state to state their excuses are remarkably the same, it's always someone else's fault, they were all victims of someone's ire and they forgot.Translation, they just didn't give a shit.
I have never not voted and no one is going to stop me from casting my ballot, if Trump were to demand everyone wear a red sock and a green sock, I will be there with a red sock and a green sock to vote his butt out.
Ugh, did I just read a defense of voter ID laws in the contrarian? I need to remind myself the "contrary" here - no matter that MAGA is working diligently toward a full-blown fascistic state - breathes a marginalized conservatism. This plays right into the plans in Trump's executive order that takes away the right of women who no longer use the name on their birth certificate to vote. Never mind that a president has no authority over the conduct of elections. States do. Make it up, keep saying it, issue the order, browbeat like crazy, who knows? Maybe he'll get what he wants. The chaos agents all seem to think things are going swimmingly.
Let's just recap here:
18 percent—or almost 6 million—citizens over the age of 65 do not have photo ID;
16 percent of Latino voters do not have government-issued photo ID;
25 percent of voting age African Americans—5.5 million people – do not have ID; and
15 percent of voting age Americans who earn less than $35,000 do not have ID.
If you are a person of color, watching people that look like you be disappeared by Trump thugs who are in hoodies, not uniforms, and thrown out of the country no matter how long they've lived here, or, worse, tossed into a nightmarish prison in El Salvador, where they laugh at fear and cries for due process, why, exactly, would you show up fearlessly at a government office to get a photo ID? Better to just take your chances in the shadows, a lot of people will think.
I am for open dialogue and differing points of view being aired, but I am compelled to push back here on this. It's not meeting the challenge to capitulate to the marginalization of women and people of color.
I didn't like that defense of voter ID either. And like you, I do believe in open discussion, and listening/ providing a forum for opposing views, the thinking behind the name Contrarian, I suppose. I'll second the pushback, while welcoming the discussion.
At least with a nightmare we can wake up and realize it's not real. This is going to go on for another 3 /12 years! This is worse than anything I could have ever dreamed of! :-(
This is a pattern with Trump: an noble claimed intention we could all agree with, but fraud and corruption in reality.
Who wouldn't be in favor of "Preserving and Protecting the Integrity of American Elections" ? Who wouldn't be in favor of more "government efficiency"?
1. Musk shouldn't be in government, given the plethora of conflicts of interest. Doge is getting rid of the inspectors who were investigating Musk's companies, and replacing Verizon with Starlink as a government contractor. In addition, with his chainsaw approach, Musk is making sure public agencies and departments are so understaffed that they will be dysfunctional, leading to privatization to "serve American people better".
2. The new Voting preservation EO is most likely meant to do voter suppression in favor of Trump's team, once voters' lists in the hands of Doge.
How many non-citizens vote in elections? Seems to me that requiring proof of citizenship is a solution in search of a problem, when weighed against the administrative burden of ascertaining voters' eligibility.
I disagree with the writer’s comment that voters have more options so you agree with not allowing ballots after election day. Sounds good but you are missing facts- we don’t all live in cities, we don’t all drive, the USPS under Trump 1.0 became unreliable. Finally there are issues on a ballot beyond political positions - discernment takes time. We are a mail in only state- which I find great- often I review my ballot in the last few days. If I can’t get to a drop box - I mail. I doubt you would support on-line voting- so with your approach ( Trumps) mail in voting would need to be at least 8 days ahead to ensure the vote got it.
Inwould like Mr. Richer to explain WHY I or any other American citizen should be required to carry my birth certificate or passport to vote.
I expect t Mr. Richer's next essay to explain WHY Americans have to obtain a new, Trump issued certificate of loyalty to Der Trumpfer in order to breathe the air.
A. What evidence is there of voter fraud that warrants requiring documented proof of citizenship? No, it does not simply "make sense" unless there is a real transgression that it addresses. Or do you also want to put a traffic light at every intersection across our most remote deserts too?!
B. As long as the mail-in ballot is postmarked on or before Election Day, the voter has fully complied with federal law. If Mr. Roy can't get the mail back to the voting office by Election Day, that's his problem, not ours.
Perhaps these are good reasons that Congress hasn't legislated those new nuisance rules, and maybe, just maybe, you and Trump are both DEAD WRONG.
First, there are only a few people who are not eligible to vote that actually do vote in our elections. And half of those were because the people thought that they were eligible (former felon, etc.). Actually even the Heritage Foundation found only 85 cases of non-citizens voting between 2002 and 2023, out of hundreds of millions of voters. Secondly there are several states like Oregon where all the voting is by mail, they are now trying to figure out what to do with the Felon's new EO. As long as the ballot is postmarked prior to the election date, what is the problem?? The Felon's EO is a joke, like most of his pronouncements. And like most of what he does...it's illegal.
Where does that leave over sees citizens and their votes. And how about military voting, they may sign their ballots but delivery delays should not invalidate them.
So only 1% of the electorate in Arizona gets disenfranchised because they don't have the means--the computer or the car or even the money--to acquire a copy of their birth certificate or passport, and that's supposed to be okay? That is not a few people.
Mr. Richer neglects to mention all the trouble that Arizona's DMV has had validating and tracking proof of citizenship when new voters are registered in the state. It caused no small number of citizens to be disenfranchised in state elections and required the state supreme court to re-enfranchise those voters for federal elections. His broader point is correct though, it's the chaos that will do the most damage.
Oh, I didn't know presidents get to make up their own voting rules. Come on. What's next, he makes us all dance in a circle and crow like a rooster?
Let's not give him any ideas!
And now there is one more (or 50 more) data dumps to the muscrats.
I disagree with the “after Election Day” requirement. Individuals in the military and being on a ship or in a foreign country don’t have the same conveniences that we do living in the US. There needs to be carve outs for them.
The post mark has to be the standard, you can mail something and it takes 2 days or 2 weeks to get there. He just didn’t like winning in 2020 until the absentee ballots got counted…
Close elections have ALWAYS had to wait for absentee ballots to be counted, going back as far as I can remember into the late 60s.
College students and people in remote work situations also need time to receive the ballot and vote. The postmark works
The military, at sea or in another country vote absentee ballot just like U.S. citizens living in another country. The state officials are required to transmit these ballots no later than 45 days before an election provided the request for a ballot has been made. Some states mail the ballot, some email the ballot. The voter has the responsibility of printing out the ballot, filling it out, signing it, and mailing it back. 45 days is plenty of time to fill out a ballot and mail it back from anywhere in the world.
My immediate thought when I read "In Arizona, where documented proof of citizenship is already required for state elections, 99% of registrants easily comply." was to ask if this means 99% of the people who wanted to register were able to, or does it mean only that 99% of those who weren't discouraged from trying were able to? I have read that those who still use midwives in rural areas, including the large Native American population, and those living near the border areas don't always have easy access to documented birth certificates that meet the standard for recognition. We have never had to carry our citizenship papers around with us in this country, indeed many people may not even have a copy of their birth certificate, which for us would be the only 'citizenship paper' we have.
I live in a very rural area in Arizona 50 miles to the nearest city. If I have to call the Sheriff, it will take him over an hour to get close. My next door neighbor is the Hualapia's (west rim Grand Canyon.)The Hualapia's like all recognized Native American tribes are dual citizens they can vote in their tribal elections and U.S. elections and have been able to vote in Arizona since 1924. Because they are also American citizens and just like anyone born here by a midwife or in a hospital they are issued a birth certificate when they are born. If they do not have a copy or have lost theirs they can send off for a certified copy just like anyone else and they have 12 months a year to do it.
No one forces anyone here to carry around "citizenship" papers. When you register to vote here you provide 3 examples of proof that you were born in the U.S.,that you currently live here to vote, and a birth certificate is one of those requirements just like when you get your drivers license you provide your birth certificate. And it is recorded, so you're only required to provide it once. After that when you vote, you use drivers lic or state issued id. or vote by mail.
As far as "people living near the border not having easy access to documented birth certificates that meet the standard for recognition," the standard for recognition is a state certified birth certificate which they are issued at birth, it's the same in every state, this is not unique to just Arizona. It does not matter which state you were born in it just needs to be certified by that state. Native Americans living along the border have as easy access to getting a copy of their birth certificate as I do, you make a request put a stamp on the envelope and mail in the request or make your request online, it's called being a grown up. Voting is either viewed by a person as an important personal responsibility or it's not, there is no need to infantilize them.
I have voted in Florida, Arkansas, Texas and Arizona, every state has their rules, and people who don't vote always have the same excuses for why they didn't vote, and from state to state their excuses are remarkably the same, it's always someone else's fault, they were all victims of someone's ire and they forgot.Translation, they just didn't give a shit.
I have never not voted and no one is going to stop me from casting my ballot, if Trump were to demand everyone wear a red sock and a green sock, I will be there with a red sock and a green sock to vote his butt out.
Ugh, did I just read a defense of voter ID laws in the contrarian? I need to remind myself the "contrary" here - no matter that MAGA is working diligently toward a full-blown fascistic state - breathes a marginalized conservatism. This plays right into the plans in Trump's executive order that takes away the right of women who no longer use the name on their birth certificate to vote. Never mind that a president has no authority over the conduct of elections. States do. Make it up, keep saying it, issue the order, browbeat like crazy, who knows? Maybe he'll get what he wants. The chaos agents all seem to think things are going swimmingly.
Let's just recap here:
18 percent—or almost 6 million—citizens over the age of 65 do not have photo ID;
16 percent of Latino voters do not have government-issued photo ID;
25 percent of voting age African Americans—5.5 million people – do not have ID; and
15 percent of voting age Americans who earn less than $35,000 do not have ID.
If you are a person of color, watching people that look like you be disappeared by Trump thugs who are in hoodies, not uniforms, and thrown out of the country no matter how long they've lived here, or, worse, tossed into a nightmarish prison in El Salvador, where they laugh at fear and cries for due process, why, exactly, would you show up fearlessly at a government office to get a photo ID? Better to just take your chances in the shadows, a lot of people will think.
I am for open dialogue and differing points of view being aired, but I am compelled to push back here on this. It's not meeting the challenge to capitulate to the marginalization of women and people of color.
I didn't like that defense of voter ID either. And like you, I do believe in open discussion, and listening/ providing a forum for opposing views, the thinking behind the name Contrarian, I suppose. I'll second the pushback, while welcoming the discussion.
At least with a nightmare we can wake up and realize it's not real. This is going to go on for another 3 /12 years! This is worse than anything I could have ever dreamed of! :-(
Who votes to have a hammer hit them over the head for 4 years?! Does NOT make sense!
This is a pattern with Trump: an noble claimed intention we could all agree with, but fraud and corruption in reality.
Who wouldn't be in favor of "Preserving and Protecting the Integrity of American Elections" ? Who wouldn't be in favor of more "government efficiency"?
1. Musk shouldn't be in government, given the plethora of conflicts of interest. Doge is getting rid of the inspectors who were investigating Musk's companies, and replacing Verizon with Starlink as a government contractor. In addition, with his chainsaw approach, Musk is making sure public agencies and departments are so understaffed that they will be dysfunctional, leading to privatization to "serve American people better".
2. The new Voting preservation EO is most likely meant to do voter suppression in favor of Trump's team, once voters' lists in the hands of Doge.
How many non-citizens vote in elections? Seems to me that requiring proof of citizenship is a solution in search of a problem, when weighed against the administrative burden of ascertaining voters' eligibility.
I disagree with the writer’s comment that voters have more options so you agree with not allowing ballots after election day. Sounds good but you are missing facts- we don’t all live in cities, we don’t all drive, the USPS under Trump 1.0 became unreliable. Finally there are issues on a ballot beyond political positions - discernment takes time. We are a mail in only state- which I find great- often I review my ballot in the last few days. If I can’t get to a drop box - I mail. I doubt you would support on-line voting- so with your approach ( Trumps) mail in voting would need to be at least 8 days ahead to ensure the vote got it.
The mail in time actually needs to be over 2 weeks. Delivery has been quite varied in my more recent experience.
Inwould like Mr. Richer to explain WHY I or any other American citizen should be required to carry my birth certificate or passport to vote.
I expect t Mr. Richer's next essay to explain WHY Americans have to obtain a new, Trump issued certificate of loyalty to Der Trumpfer in order to breathe the air.
OK, Richard...
A. What evidence is there of voter fraud that warrants requiring documented proof of citizenship? No, it does not simply "make sense" unless there is a real transgression that it addresses. Or do you also want to put a traffic light at every intersection across our most remote deserts too?!
B. As long as the mail-in ballot is postmarked on or before Election Day, the voter has fully complied with federal law. If Mr. Roy can't get the mail back to the voting office by Election Day, that's his problem, not ours.
Perhaps these are good reasons that Congress hasn't legislated those new nuisance rules, and maybe, just maybe, you and Trump are both DEAD WRONG.
First, there are only a few people who are not eligible to vote that actually do vote in our elections. And half of those were because the people thought that they were eligible (former felon, etc.). Actually even the Heritage Foundation found only 85 cases of non-citizens voting between 2002 and 2023, out of hundreds of millions of voters. Secondly there are several states like Oregon where all the voting is by mail, they are now trying to figure out what to do with the Felon's new EO. As long as the ballot is postmarked prior to the election date, what is the problem?? The Felon's EO is a joke, like most of his pronouncements. And like most of what he does...it's illegal.
Where does that leave over sees citizens and their votes. And how about military voting, they may sign their ballots but delivery delays should not invalidate them.
So only 1% of the electorate in Arizona gets disenfranchised because they don't have the means--the computer or the car or even the money--to acquire a copy of their birth certificate or passport, and that's supposed to be okay? That is not a few people.
We cannot let this happen. Period.
Thank you Stephen Richer for this report. It’s great to have principled Republicans here at The Contrarian who value democracy.