The other point people miss is that the only way people become billionaires is because they are better at leveraging services paid for by the government. Including the military to protect US interests. Hiring employees that were trained in public schools and universities. It is entirely reasonable that billionaires pay a much higher tax rate.
Elon is mainly benefiting from government subsidies and federal contracts and grants. He should be paying a very high tax rate. He's getting MUCH MORE benefit from the government than anyone else.
Even Amazon and Bezos ... they benefit from roads, airports, etc, to get products to customers. I use the roads but I get much less economic benefit than they do.
You touch on a couple of key points. The through-line from the immediately post-WWII oligarchs -- Fred Koch being perhaps the most glaring example -- to today is a warped form of libertarianism so extreme that it strives for an atomized society in which social responsibility and the social contract are not concepts. Said differently, it calls for an "every man for himself, devil take the hindmost, and get the hell out of my way" world.
In this view, individuals should be absolutely free and unconstrained in any way in the exploitation of natural resources, the control and exploitation of markets for the products those resources enabled, and the exploitation of Labor; government exists only to build the infrastructure needed to harvest the resources and get products to market, and to maintain a military strong enough to go anywhere in the world and take what further resources Capital needs or wants.
It's essentially a feudal structure, but without even the responsibilities that feudal kings and lords and so on bore toward their subjects or vassals. The same idea can be clearly seen in the antebellum US South in the late 18th and early to mid 19th centuries. It regained traction in the late 19th century, getting expression in the Gilded Age, was somewhat tamed in the Progressive era, and survived within the constraints applied (i.e., effective regulation and progressive taxation) from about 1945 until 1980. With Reagan's election, serious assaults on regulation, taxation, and the idea of social responsibility recommenced in earnest, boosted in subsequent administrations by the repeal of Glass-Steagall, the Enron and bank bailouts, and, crucially, the Citizens United decision.
Now it has the window dressings and modernizations of the 21st century, of course, but it's the same old wine, just in a new bottle. We now have unelected oligarchs having bought not just political influence but the White House and Congress, having invaded and taken direct control over the financial machinery of government, and busily paving the way for religious fanatics to impose permanent authoritarian pseudo-christian white supremacy on all of society.
An important and informative conversation. Thank you Brian and Jen! I wonder if the Contrarian could provide us with or direct us to a list of socially responsible corporate alternatives to those corporations that are not so altruistic, particularly Amazon. I use Amazon because they carry everything, and many brick and mortar stores do not.
I don’t use Amazon and I shop at brick and mortar stores, even if it’s more expensive and/or more difficult to find. I want to be able to buy something close by and see and touch it in person, ordering online doesn’t support that or small businesses trying to exist against these horrible behemoths. My small act of protest that I know is greatly appreciated by my local business owners. It can be very difficult but is rewarding and important.
I was wary of Amazon from the start, maybe because I read Jasper Fforde's Thursday Next novels which feature a conglomerate called "Giant" that markets a hot product called "toast" to the masses. I catalogue shopped for years to find clothes that fit and other items not carried by stores in the major city in which I lived. I made the transition to online ordering from the same stores. I now live much further away from brick-and-mortar stores, so I order online a lot to get the products I want. I will shop local if the stores have what I want. I see Amazon as the market of last resort, which is why I've probably only bought from them three times.
The other weird thing I keep seeing is rich people who think there might be a way to live forever. If you think that, you also have to think only you deserve to live forever. It's hard to imagine someone who wants to live forever, and thinks they might, has any moral values at all.
Thank You, Jen for the steps you’ve taken. I enjoyed reading you when you were with the Post, but now I relieved on you for an educated perspective. You had so much more to give than that institution allowed and I am fortunate to be a recipient of your journalism.
FANTASTIC interview. I wanted to copy and send the link to this interview to all my congress people, though I realize that probably won't do much as they all are already working hard right now to be a bulwark against trump et al. Brian's insights are an interesting corollary to insights shared by Dexter Filkins in a new article in The New Yorker about the dismal state of affairs in recruiting new soldiers and sailors in our military. The idea of service seems quite moribund at the moment. Greed and selfishness are ascendant.
Aside from making billions is being a good steward of your riches. Some people are just naturally good at being wealth managers. My mom comes to mind. She worked at the bank when she was still single. The bank wanted to send her to banking school but she had other plans.
She was the financial manager of our household. If we had that kind of money when I was a kid at home I am sure that it would have been managed quite differently. Charities and other things that were meaningful to our family would no doubt have been recipients of their generosity. What do these billionaires spend their money on? What charities or organizations do they donate to? What schools or businesses have they funded or invested in? Have they endowed any scholarships at any deserving colleges or universities? The money manager has just as important a role as a money maker. Being wise in who and what you invest in is something that every investor or entrepreneur should think about and of course taxation rate is dependent on what the government decides on.
A commenter below said this, but I'll put it another way: Can a Contrarian (guest, perhaps) tell us who to boycott, and how? I've put the brakes on Whole Foods in favor of my local Food CoOp, and I try to avoid Amazon altogether, but what else can and should I be doing to exercise my power of the purse? I stay away from Facebook, but Instagram is part of a project I'm doing, and it would be so difficult to switch from Gmail. Is there a savvy person who could help with this? We need to counter the kleptocratic gains with some losses.
Thanks for having Brian in discussion. I have Fluke in hardbound and audio; it really is a book that will shift your perspective in a healthy and challenging way. This discussion on income inequality, the obscene asocial anti-ethos of the meta-national plutocrats now plundering our democracies is vitally necessary.
Jen and Brian, thank you for such a thought-provoking conversation! And Brian, hello from Minnesota. We may be getting 5-8 inches of snow over the weekend. ☃️
The other point people miss is that the only way people become billionaires is because they are better at leveraging services paid for by the government. Including the military to protect US interests. Hiring employees that were trained in public schools and universities. It is entirely reasonable that billionaires pay a much higher tax rate.
Elon is mainly benefiting from government subsidies and federal contracts and grants. He should be paying a very high tax rate. He's getting MUCH MORE benefit from the government than anyone else.
Even Amazon and Bezos ... they benefit from roads, airports, etc, to get products to customers. I use the roads but I get much less economic benefit than they do.
Very important points, Patrick! They should be part of everyday legacy news.
You touch on a couple of key points. The through-line from the immediately post-WWII oligarchs -- Fred Koch being perhaps the most glaring example -- to today is a warped form of libertarianism so extreme that it strives for an atomized society in which social responsibility and the social contract are not concepts. Said differently, it calls for an "every man for himself, devil take the hindmost, and get the hell out of my way" world.
In this view, individuals should be absolutely free and unconstrained in any way in the exploitation of natural resources, the control and exploitation of markets for the products those resources enabled, and the exploitation of Labor; government exists only to build the infrastructure needed to harvest the resources and get products to market, and to maintain a military strong enough to go anywhere in the world and take what further resources Capital needs or wants.
It's essentially a feudal structure, but without even the responsibilities that feudal kings and lords and so on bore toward their subjects or vassals. The same idea can be clearly seen in the antebellum US South in the late 18th and early to mid 19th centuries. It regained traction in the late 19th century, getting expression in the Gilded Age, was somewhat tamed in the Progressive era, and survived within the constraints applied (i.e., effective regulation and progressive taxation) from about 1945 until 1980. With Reagan's election, serious assaults on regulation, taxation, and the idea of social responsibility recommenced in earnest, boosted in subsequent administrations by the repeal of Glass-Steagall, the Enron and bank bailouts, and, crucially, the Citizens United decision.
Now it has the window dressings and modernizations of the 21st century, of course, but it's the same old wine, just in a new bottle. We now have unelected oligarchs having bought not just political influence but the White House and Congress, having invaded and taken direct control over the financial machinery of government, and busily paving the way for religious fanatics to impose permanent authoritarian pseudo-christian white supremacy on all of society.
An important and informative conversation. Thank you Brian and Jen! I wonder if the Contrarian could provide us with or direct us to a list of socially responsible corporate alternatives to those corporations that are not so altruistic, particularly Amazon. I use Amazon because they carry everything, and many brick and mortar stores do not.
I don’t use Amazon and I shop at brick and mortar stores, even if it’s more expensive and/or more difficult to find. I want to be able to buy something close by and see and touch it in person, ordering online doesn’t support that or small businesses trying to exist against these horrible behemoths. My small act of protest that I know is greatly appreciated by my local business owners. It can be very difficult but is rewarding and important.
I was wary of Amazon from the start, maybe because I read Jasper Fforde's Thursday Next novels which feature a conglomerate called "Giant" that markets a hot product called "toast" to the masses. I catalogue shopped for years to find clothes that fit and other items not carried by stores in the major city in which I lived. I made the transition to online ordering from the same stores. I now live much further away from brick-and-mortar stores, so I order online a lot to get the products I want. I will shop local if the stores have what I want. I see Amazon as the market of last resort, which is why I've probably only bought from them three times.
As well as Goods Unite Us (https://www.goodsuniteus.com/), have a look at https://popular.info/p/10-corporations-that-kept-their-promises.
Check the website/app “Goods Unite Us.”
This is the best thing I have encountered since subscribing to The Contrarian.
The other weird thing I keep seeing is rich people who think there might be a way to live forever. If you think that, you also have to think only you deserve to live forever. It's hard to imagine someone who wants to live forever, and thinks they might, has any moral values at all.
Thank You, Jen for the steps you’ve taken. I enjoyed reading you when you were with the Post, but now I relieved on you for an educated perspective. You had so much more to give than that institution allowed and I am fortunate to be a recipient of your journalism.
Excellent conversation, thanks Brian and Jen!
Fascinating conversation to get started, thank you!
FANTASTIC interview. I wanted to copy and send the link to this interview to all my congress people, though I realize that probably won't do much as they all are already working hard right now to be a bulwark against trump et al. Brian's insights are an interesting corollary to insights shared by Dexter Filkins in a new article in The New Yorker about the dismal state of affairs in recruiting new soldiers and sailors in our military. The idea of service seems quite moribund at the moment. Greed and selfishness are ascendant.
Aside from making billions is being a good steward of your riches. Some people are just naturally good at being wealth managers. My mom comes to mind. She worked at the bank when she was still single. The bank wanted to send her to banking school but she had other plans.
She was the financial manager of our household. If we had that kind of money when I was a kid at home I am sure that it would have been managed quite differently. Charities and other things that were meaningful to our family would no doubt have been recipients of their generosity. What do these billionaires spend their money on? What charities or organizations do they donate to? What schools or businesses have they funded or invested in? Have they endowed any scholarships at any deserving colleges or universities? The money manager has just as important a role as a money maker. Being wise in who and what you invest in is something that every investor or entrepreneur should think about and of course taxation rate is dependent on what the government decides on.
A commenter below said this, but I'll put it another way: Can a Contrarian (guest, perhaps) tell us who to boycott, and how? I've put the brakes on Whole Foods in favor of my local Food CoOp, and I try to avoid Amazon altogether, but what else can and should I be doing to exercise my power of the purse? I stay away from Facebook, but Instagram is part of a project I'm doing, and it would be so difficult to switch from Gmail. Is there a savvy person who could help with this? We need to counter the kleptocratic gains with some losses.
Excellent discussion, please have him back!
Thanks for having Brian in discussion. I have Fluke in hardbound and audio; it really is a book that will shift your perspective in a healthy and challenging way. This discussion on income inequality, the obscene asocial anti-ethos of the meta-national plutocrats now plundering our democracies is vitally necessary.
I'm going to get it next week!
I really enjoyed your interview Jen with Brian Klass. I hope you have him on again.
Jen and Brian, thank you for such a thought-provoking conversation! And Brian, hello from Minnesota. We may be getting 5-8 inches of snow over the weekend. ☃️
Really informative and inspiring for rethinking how we encourage billionaires to contribute to their societies as part of their historical legacy.
Imma reader..... Please publish transcripts!
I enjoy the videos and the transcripts which are linked under the subject matter. I am on a PC though.