Norm Eisen makes us proud, Jen interviews Reps. Madeleine Dean, Abigail Spanberger, and Jake Auchincloss, The Democracy Index, Azza Cohen, Jamie Schler, Shalise Manza Young, Ruben Bolling, and Esther!
I’m still licking my wounds on this CR after spending over three hours at the protest/ demonstration in DC at National Mall…. Decent crowd — lots of pissed off vets and displaced fed workers as well as just angry citizens who want to protect democracy. A couple of rousing speeches. Went a bit long … I thought we should have had double the crowd — but maybe that was too much to hope for midday Friday.
Hopefully we can double and triple the crowds. We need to MAKE SOME NOISE!!
Honestly I am not sure what the best avenue was regarding the shutdown. Do you imagine that Musk and Trump would have stopped all that they are doing because of a shutdown. Wouldnt it have been easier for them to slash and make things disappear. I am not going to admonish those democrats who voted to keep the government open. I am a lifelong liberal Democrat but I really think that we must continue to fight and allow all those who are still working in the government to continue to do their work. Too many are losing their jobs. Making a statement is short lived and as we all know, we ain’t exactly in the power positions.Thank goodness for all the efforts of lawyers and non profits who are constantly challenging what is being done. So, hopefully keeping the government open will regret.
The real problem here is that we are in unknown territory. And as is always the case in that country, predictions are at best not much more than guesswork. Mr Schumer may turn out to have been right, but the odds are very good that we won’t ever really know because the results of the alternative will not have happened.
There is only one certainty. Trumpmuskovia is a rolling disaster of a kind we have never experienced before. Every effort to either deny them their lawless rampage, or at least to mitigate it as best we can should be our priority.
Good thought about the unknown, but here's my take: giving Trump legal authority for his "slash & burn" by shutting down the government would likely mean that effectively violating separation of powers by widespread and deep impoundment would extend to four years. As it now stands the courts are reducing the effective time of his illegal power grab.
Incidentally, it's the unconstitutional power grab that I fiercely oppose. Trump and Musk are incompetent narcissists (most narcissists are brilliant CEOs), but I agree with severe reductions in the federal workforce and movement away from the administrative state (it's a real and damaging state, but different from the "deep" state).
Linda, my feeling is that right now, Trump and Musk are dismantling our government regardless of anything the Democrats in Congress are doing, so what difference does it make if there is a shutdown?
Also, it's not clear to me that all Republicans really want a shutdown and be saddled with the blow-back from that. Had the Democrats stood firm and not supported a CR, it would have thrown it back to the House and anything could have happened at that point, perhaps even emboldening some of the Republican uncomfortable with Trump. At the very least, further compromises might have been negotiated.
Finally, the big issue for the Democrats right now is that they are leaderless - nobody has stepped up to lead the fight and rally the party. Schumer could at least have held down the fort but he caved to the past governance status quo, which no longer appears to be operative. Democrats are calling for stronger action, even if it's mostly symbolic at this point, and he had a chance to provide a rallying moment and at least shown a willingness to push back, but he went all mealy-mouth and hid behind procedure.
So sad that the majority of the voters of this country voted against their own self-interest, and condemned us all to this destructive nonsense. It’s gonna be a loooooong two years until the voters have a CHANCE to change this UnAmerican and misguided Republican dominance of our government. Just gotta hope that we can recover from whatever the current rudderless wrecking ball is doing to us!
Those who can need to start looking for how the GOP plans to sabotage the mid-term election--if we know anything, we know they have no scruples and are up to no good. Win at ANY Cost.
Very true! I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the last election was stolen by the Repubs. Certainly, gerrymandering disingenuously aided their cause!
The gloves are off. Let us first clean up our own house. Schumer is the first to go. Let's rally around Sanders, AOC, Jamie Raskin, Robert Reich, Pete Buttigieg. Let us be bold!
Jennifer and Norm, I'm a new subscriber, love your stuff, but respectfully and strongly disagree with your condemnation of Schumer (and other Ds doing it too). Schumer laid out all his reason in his NY Times article, and he was exactly right. Trump and Musk wanted a shutdown because (a) they don't believe in government and so would be happy for total shutdown and (b) there was a huge that risk that swing and independent voters would have blamed Ds for it, and added greatly to the Ds image problem, especially because Ds are the party of good government and they would have sacrificed that image for a long time had the 10 not had the courage to do the right thing. Of course we all feel helpless in the face of the destruction of the federal government, but the larger public that does not follow inside the beltway stuff would not have been with us. Total concentration now should be on raising public awareness of the costs of destroying the government, the upcoming special elections and midterms. There was absolutely nothing Ds would have gained had the shutdown proceeded. Trump and Musk would have sat back and laughed and done nothing, except bring back the workers THEY deemed essential, the military, and remaining FBI and DOJ they want to keep. Why do you think Musk wanted access to the Treasury keys? TO ENABLE THEM TO EFFECT A PARTIAL SHUTDOWN FOREVER, which is what would have happened without those 10 courageous Senators who are unfairly being maligned by Ds, when Ds should keep the focus on Trump and spinless Rs who are letting Trump operate the government as a slush fund. Without a majority THERE IS NOTHING DS COULD HAVE DONE OR CAN DO TO STOP THEM, other than bring anti-impoundment litigation, which I know the CR could help, though I believe there is a strong argument that all the CR did is KEEP THE PRIOR APPROPRIATIONS IN EFFECT. Of course, what Scotus would do with an impoundment lawsuit is heavily in doubt, but that is an issue for another day.
"Trump and Musk wanted a shutdown because (a) they don't believe in government and so would be happy for total shutdown and (b) there was a huge that risk that swing and independent voters would have blamed Ds for it, and added greatly to the Ds image problem, especially because Ds are the party of good government and they would have sacrificed that image for a long time had the 10 not had the courage to do the right thing."
Schumer found himself in a "no-win" scenario. If he agreed to the CR then DOGE moves forward and he gets tons of criticism from the rest of the Dems, but the government stays open. If he stopped the CR then OMB (Russ Vought) would have determined which parts of the government remained open. So Jen, Norm, Nancy, AOC and the crowd can whine and snivel all they want about some "betrayal", but they aren't in the Senate having to make a tough decision.
Now maybe both parties can start working on next year's budget NOW.
I am not happy that the Dems didn't invoke a talking filibuster for a while, to focus attention on this horrible bill. That said, 10 Dems did NOT support the bill. They supported cloture and then most voted against the bill itself. Let's be correct and dispense with the misleading headlines. On balance, I think this was the right thing (though not before some dissenting speeches), given the fact that a government shutdown would have poured gasoline onto the Trump/Musk fire.
Democrats are an embarrassing group. I would have been more satisfied if they took action and it went no where, rather than inaction. We are doomed without a plan of action.
It seems that the public website, the Congressional Budget Office, you can no longer open any documents.
Can someone check to see if I am wrong?
You can go to the website and go to the main title pages are there, but when you click to open detailed documents, like The budget and economic outlook - they won't open.
Maybe it is my computer, or maybe a website glitch, but with Trump and Musk, one wonders whenever something seems amiss.
I just went to the CBO website (https://www.cbo.gov/) and clicked on the link for The Budget and Economic Outlook: 2025 to 2035. It opened a page that let me choose whether to view the document as HTML or PDF.
I'm on Linux Mint, using FireFox. As always with computers, if you find yours is misbehaving, start with a reboot.
I did all of that last night but could not get any historic docs past this year and last and the older versions only had a PDF option that would not open. I found a way in thorough a different link on other docs but could not get directly in. That means I had to go back year by year in a leapfrog fashion.
Today it is working, and I can get docs directly on google, no 504 message today.
However I made no additional changes on my end so it was probably not my computer and likely their server.
Today, I can google something like CBO: The Budget and economic Outlook 2009-2019 and get in straight to the doc without even going to CBO, so all seems fine today.
Again, thanks so much for checking. I felt so uneasy after all that happened yesterday.
I don't know ... I had originally opposed the CR and the cloture vote and had called my senators about it. But seeing the arguments of Schumer and also Angus King (whom I respect tremendously, and who definitely "gets it") has given me pause. There are no good options here, and they might be right that, under the circumstances, their vote was the least bad one. I admit that it hadn't occurred to me (and it should have) that if the federal government closes down, that means the federal courts that are currently our only structural defense against authoritarianism (at the federal level, at least) would also be shut down. I imagine nothing would make the Trump/Musk administration happier. This way at least those courts stay open.
Is there no way members of Congress can be sued for “giving away” their responsibilities contrary to the Constitution?
It seems to me voters elect members of Congress based on clear duties, including managing the purse. The current Congress has chosen to let the president ignore their appropriations.
That is not what the voters voted for.
That seems like some sort of violation.
If not, what else could they get away with? What if they just decided to eliminate other responsibilities?
I know there are elections, but it doesn’t seem right that they choose to redefine their role and get away with it.
I was sad to see Senate Democrats cave to the bully. I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how power is exercised and what it says about those exercising it. My thoughts have taken me back to junior high school where there was a particularly aggressive schoolyard bully. He and his small cadre of lackeys would roam the schoolyard at recess and pick on just about anyone who wasn’t agreeable to him. Perhaps he was just a typical bully but he seemed particularly harsh to me. When he finally turned his attention to me it was with a snide remark and a little shove. I remember looking down at the ground and then immediately being upset with myself for it. The next thing I remember is focusing on his shins and having the reaction of kicking him there, doing so more because I was upset with myself for showing contrition than being mad at him.
The result was that he never really bothered me again but he continued undaunted to harass anyone he perceived as weak. There was one particular boy, smart, studious and small in stature that the bully was particularly fond of harassing. At some point, the boy just left the schoolyard to stand in the hallway that led back to the school building. After a couple of days of seeing him stand there I went over to talk to him. He was a fascinating person, smart and full of ideas. I kept him company on the sidelines for maybe a couple of days before school administration decided that he could spend recess in the library (1). We had conversations about science and philosophy that no doubt influenced my curiosity for learning from that point forward.
My schoolyard bully story would undoubtedly be a typical one, perhaps forgotten, if I hadn’t gone over to talk to the smart kid. I don’t remember any of their names but I do have a lasting impression of the damage and waste that bullying creates. I know I benefited from befriending the bullied kid but I wonder how many others would have if the schoolyard culture was less driven by might-makes-right.
I don’t remember when I last thought about my middle school bully experience, and I’m pretty sure that I’ve never analyzed it as much as I have recently. I can only surmise that it’s because I see the same thing happening with our federal government right now. Giving the bully the run of the recess schoolyard is one thing, it’s tragic consequences perhaps limited by its fifty minute time limit. But imagine if the bully had been given control over the entire school? The damage would be unimaginable, yet, here we are. The bully is in charge and the smart people who keep us safe from enemies, disease, poverty and natural disasters are being driven to the sidelines.
After I kicked the bully in the shin he shoved me to the ground cursing but, as I said, he never really bothered me again. There was pain and embarrassment in standing up to the bully but it was necessary to deal with the threat. Congress needs to stand up to the bully not just manage the consequences. Democrats just had their chance and blew it. It’s hard, it will bring pain and threats. But once the bully and, more importantly, the rest of us in the schoolyard understand that he is not all powerful, his threats will become less impactful and more and more good people will stand up against him. That is how you beat the bully.
(1) This action shows that school administrators knew that bullying was an issue in the schoolyard and, as far as I know, no other action was taken to address it. You could liken it to the current position of Congress.
Americans by the millions are still Canada’s friends. In fact, a huge majority stand by Canadians, but for a few radical sycophants, who follow a demented wanna-be dictator. The amicable relationship between our two countries will survive long after the temper tantrum Tasmanian toddler Trump has been purged from power. May his dismissal and demise be swift.
Just proves that our (these ten) “representatives” aren’t bothering to listen to us but afraid of being primaried. Well, believe they will be — by Our Side! — and voted out. I am SO disappointed but mainly by Schumer who just couldn’t do the job.
I’m still licking my wounds on this CR after spending over three hours at the protest/ demonstration in DC at National Mall…. Decent crowd — lots of pissed off vets and displaced fed workers as well as just angry citizens who want to protect democracy. A couple of rousing speeches. Went a bit long … I thought we should have had double the crowd — but maybe that was too much to hope for midday Friday.
Hopefully we can double and triple the crowds. We need to MAKE SOME NOISE!!
Thank you, Norm I'm on your team.
Honestly I am not sure what the best avenue was regarding the shutdown. Do you imagine that Musk and Trump would have stopped all that they are doing because of a shutdown. Wouldnt it have been easier for them to slash and make things disappear. I am not going to admonish those democrats who voted to keep the government open. I am a lifelong liberal Democrat but I really think that we must continue to fight and allow all those who are still working in the government to continue to do their work. Too many are losing their jobs. Making a statement is short lived and as we all know, we ain’t exactly in the power positions.Thank goodness for all the efforts of lawyers and non profits who are constantly challenging what is being done. So, hopefully keeping the government open will regret.
The real problem here is that we are in unknown territory. And as is always the case in that country, predictions are at best not much more than guesswork. Mr Schumer may turn out to have been right, but the odds are very good that we won’t ever really know because the results of the alternative will not have happened.
There is only one certainty. Trumpmuskovia is a rolling disaster of a kind we have never experienced before. Every effort to either deny them their lawless rampage, or at least to mitigate it as best we can should be our priority.
Good thought about the unknown, but here's my take: giving Trump legal authority for his "slash & burn" by shutting down the government would likely mean that effectively violating separation of powers by widespread and deep impoundment would extend to four years. As it now stands the courts are reducing the effective time of his illegal power grab.
Incidentally, it's the unconstitutional power grab that I fiercely oppose. Trump and Musk are incompetent narcissists (most narcissists are brilliant CEOs), but I agree with severe reductions in the federal workforce and movement away from the administrative state (it's a real and damaging state, but different from the "deep" state).
Linda, my feeling is that right now, Trump and Musk are dismantling our government regardless of anything the Democrats in Congress are doing, so what difference does it make if there is a shutdown?
Also, it's not clear to me that all Republicans really want a shutdown and be saddled with the blow-back from that. Had the Democrats stood firm and not supported a CR, it would have thrown it back to the House and anything could have happened at that point, perhaps even emboldening some of the Republican uncomfortable with Trump. At the very least, further compromises might have been negotiated.
Finally, the big issue for the Democrats right now is that they are leaderless - nobody has stepped up to lead the fight and rally the party. Schumer could at least have held down the fort but he caved to the past governance status quo, which no longer appears to be operative. Democrats are calling for stronger action, even if it's mostly symbolic at this point, and he had a chance to provide a rallying moment and at least shown a willingness to push back, but he went all mealy-mouth and hid behind procedure.
So sad that the majority of the voters of this country voted against their own self-interest, and condemned us all to this destructive nonsense. It’s gonna be a loooooong two years until the voters have a CHANCE to change this UnAmerican and misguided Republican dominance of our government. Just gotta hope that we can recover from whatever the current rudderless wrecking ball is doing to us!
Those who can need to start looking for how the GOP plans to sabotage the mid-term election--if we know anything, we know they have no scruples and are up to no good. Win at ANY Cost.
Very true! I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that the last election was stolen by the Repubs. Certainly, gerrymandering disingenuously aided their cause!
The gloves are off. Let us first clean up our own house. Schumer is the first to go. Let's rally around Sanders, AOC, Jamie Raskin, Robert Reich, Pete Buttigieg. Let us be bold!
It is always up to ‘we the people’. There’s no quick resolution of the horror that is Trump, Musk, Oligarchs & the GOP.
Today I had to remind myself that ‘we the people’ elected our current mess that block reform….
- Single payer Healthcare
- Decrease ‘For Profit’ & ‘Privatization Insurance, Healthcare, Pharmaceutical
- btw Outsourcing/ Privatization increase cost ALWAYS!
- Immigration reform w/ path & Dreamers
- Congress
- Ethics Supreme Court
- Dark & Oligarchs- less
- We the People- focus
Jennifer and Norm, I'm a new subscriber, love your stuff, but respectfully and strongly disagree with your condemnation of Schumer (and other Ds doing it too). Schumer laid out all his reason in his NY Times article, and he was exactly right. Trump and Musk wanted a shutdown because (a) they don't believe in government and so would be happy for total shutdown and (b) there was a huge that risk that swing and independent voters would have blamed Ds for it, and added greatly to the Ds image problem, especially because Ds are the party of good government and they would have sacrificed that image for a long time had the 10 not had the courage to do the right thing. Of course we all feel helpless in the face of the destruction of the federal government, but the larger public that does not follow inside the beltway stuff would not have been with us. Total concentration now should be on raising public awareness of the costs of destroying the government, the upcoming special elections and midterms. There was absolutely nothing Ds would have gained had the shutdown proceeded. Trump and Musk would have sat back and laughed and done nothing, except bring back the workers THEY deemed essential, the military, and remaining FBI and DOJ they want to keep. Why do you think Musk wanted access to the Treasury keys? TO ENABLE THEM TO EFFECT A PARTIAL SHUTDOWN FOREVER, which is what would have happened without those 10 courageous Senators who are unfairly being maligned by Ds, when Ds should keep the focus on Trump and spinless Rs who are letting Trump operate the government as a slush fund. Without a majority THERE IS NOTHING DS COULD HAVE DONE OR CAN DO TO STOP THEM, other than bring anti-impoundment litigation, which I know the CR could help, though I believe there is a strong argument that all the CR did is KEEP THE PRIOR APPROPRIATIONS IN EFFECT. Of course, what Scotus would do with an impoundment lawsuit is heavily in doubt, but that is an issue for another day.
"Trump and Musk wanted a shutdown because (a) they don't believe in government and so would be happy for total shutdown and (b) there was a huge that risk that swing and independent voters would have blamed Ds for it, and added greatly to the Ds image problem, especially because Ds are the party of good government and they would have sacrificed that image for a long time had the 10 not had the courage to do the right thing."
Schumer found himself in a "no-win" scenario. If he agreed to the CR then DOGE moves forward and he gets tons of criticism from the rest of the Dems, but the government stays open. If he stopped the CR then OMB (Russ Vought) would have determined which parts of the government remained open. So Jen, Norm, Nancy, AOC and the crowd can whine and snivel all they want about some "betrayal", but they aren't in the Senate having to make a tough decision.
Now maybe both parties can start working on next year's budget NOW.
I am not happy that the Dems didn't invoke a talking filibuster for a while, to focus attention on this horrible bill. That said, 10 Dems did NOT support the bill. They supported cloture and then most voted against the bill itself. Let's be correct and dispense with the misleading headlines. On balance, I think this was the right thing (though not before some dissenting speeches), given the fact that a government shutdown would have poured gasoline onto the Trump/Musk fire.
Democrats are an embarrassing group. I would have been more satisfied if they took action and it went no where, rather than inaction. We are doomed without a plan of action.
Very Nicely Done! Rock On, Mr. Eisen and Co.!
It seems that the public website, the Congressional Budget Office, you can no longer open any documents.
Can someone check to see if I am wrong?
You can go to the website and go to the main title pages are there, but when you click to open detailed documents, like The budget and economic outlook - they won't open.
Maybe it is my computer, or maybe a website glitch, but with Trump and Musk, one wonders whenever something seems amiss.
Any economics nerds here? It is just the PDFs.
I just went to the CBO website (https://www.cbo.gov/) and clicked on the link for The Budget and Economic Outlook: 2025 to 2035. It opened a page that let me choose whether to view the document as HTML or PDF.
I'm on Linux Mint, using FireFox. As always with computers, if you find yours is misbehaving, start with a reboot.
Thanks for checking.
I did all of that last night but could not get any historic docs past this year and last and the older versions only had a PDF option that would not open. I found a way in thorough a different link on other docs but could not get directly in. That means I had to go back year by year in a leapfrog fashion.
Today it is working, and I can get docs directly on google, no 504 message today.
However I made no additional changes on my end so it was probably not my computer and likely their server.
Today, I can google something like CBO: The Budget and economic Outlook 2009-2019 and get in straight to the doc without even going to CBO, so all seems fine today.
Again, thanks so much for checking. I felt so uneasy after all that happened yesterday.
I don't know ... I had originally opposed the CR and the cloture vote and had called my senators about it. But seeing the arguments of Schumer and also Angus King (whom I respect tremendously, and who definitely "gets it") has given me pause. There are no good options here, and they might be right that, under the circumstances, their vote was the least bad one. I admit that it hadn't occurred to me (and it should have) that if the federal government closes down, that means the federal courts that are currently our only structural defense against authoritarianism (at the federal level, at least) would also be shut down. I imagine nothing would make the Trump/Musk administration happier. This way at least those courts stay open.
Is there no way members of Congress can be sued for “giving away” their responsibilities contrary to the Constitution?
It seems to me voters elect members of Congress based on clear duties, including managing the purse. The current Congress has chosen to let the president ignore their appropriations.
That is not what the voters voted for.
That seems like some sort of violation.
If not, what else could they get away with? What if they just decided to eliminate other responsibilities?
I know there are elections, but it doesn’t seem right that they choose to redefine their role and get away with it.
I was sad to see Senate Democrats cave to the bully. I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how power is exercised and what it says about those exercising it. My thoughts have taken me back to junior high school where there was a particularly aggressive schoolyard bully. He and his small cadre of lackeys would roam the schoolyard at recess and pick on just about anyone who wasn’t agreeable to him. Perhaps he was just a typical bully but he seemed particularly harsh to me. When he finally turned his attention to me it was with a snide remark and a little shove. I remember looking down at the ground and then immediately being upset with myself for it. The next thing I remember is focusing on his shins and having the reaction of kicking him there, doing so more because I was upset with myself for showing contrition than being mad at him.
The result was that he never really bothered me again but he continued undaunted to harass anyone he perceived as weak. There was one particular boy, smart, studious and small in stature that the bully was particularly fond of harassing. At some point, the boy just left the schoolyard to stand in the hallway that led back to the school building. After a couple of days of seeing him stand there I went over to talk to him. He was a fascinating person, smart and full of ideas. I kept him company on the sidelines for maybe a couple of days before school administration decided that he could spend recess in the library (1). We had conversations about science and philosophy that no doubt influenced my curiosity for learning from that point forward.
My schoolyard bully story would undoubtedly be a typical one, perhaps forgotten, if I hadn’t gone over to talk to the smart kid. I don’t remember any of their names but I do have a lasting impression of the damage and waste that bullying creates. I know I benefited from befriending the bullied kid but I wonder how many others would have if the schoolyard culture was less driven by might-makes-right.
I don’t remember when I last thought about my middle school bully experience, and I’m pretty sure that I’ve never analyzed it as much as I have recently. I can only surmise that it’s because I see the same thing happening with our federal government right now. Giving the bully the run of the recess schoolyard is one thing, it’s tragic consequences perhaps limited by its fifty minute time limit. But imagine if the bully had been given control over the entire school? The damage would be unimaginable, yet, here we are. The bully is in charge and the smart people who keep us safe from enemies, disease, poverty and natural disasters are being driven to the sidelines.
After I kicked the bully in the shin he shoved me to the ground cursing but, as I said, he never really bothered me again. There was pain and embarrassment in standing up to the bully but it was necessary to deal with the threat. Congress needs to stand up to the bully not just manage the consequences. Democrats just had their chance and blew it. It’s hard, it will bring pain and threats. But once the bully and, more importantly, the rest of us in the schoolyard understand that he is not all powerful, his threats will become less impactful and more and more good people will stand up against him. That is how you beat the bully.
(1) This action shows that school administrators knew that bullying was an issue in the schoolyard and, as far as I know, no other action was taken to address it. You could liken it to the current position of Congress.
john king
(Like and subscribe, please)
Americans by the millions are still Canada’s friends. In fact, a huge majority stand by Canadians, but for a few radical sycophants, who follow a demented wanna-be dictator. The amicable relationship between our two countries will survive long after the temper tantrum Tasmanian toddler Trump has been purged from power. May his dismissal and demise be swift.
Just proves that our (these ten) “representatives” aren’t bothering to listen to us but afraid of being primaried. Well, believe they will be — by Our Side! — and voted out. I am SO disappointed but mainly by Schumer who just couldn’t do the job.