My family and I have been having this conversation. We aren’t changing out our iPhones now - we rely on them too much. We won’t buy new Apple products, however. There are other acceptable computers and laptops made by companies without public ring-kissers at the helm, although their CEOs are undoubtedly morally compromised like Cook.
That’s the problem: once American corporate leaders decided in the 1970s-80s they no longer had to care about the common good, since only “shareholders” matter, they were free to act against the public interest when helpful to their individual fortunes.
Cook, Bezos, Zuckerberg, Ellison, Thiel, Musk … etc. … apparently think bribing Trump is the current key to success, more than a society that protects the rule of law and constitutional rights of its citizens.
I believe this is tragically shortsighted, but that’s where we seem to be.
As far as I’m aware, he hasn’t handed over the keys to the backdoor, yet. That is something that I’m keeping in mind as I consider the same. I’ve got nothing to hide, but I do have something to protect: my privacy.
You raise an important point. It would seem that guarding the “back door” of an operating system should be task #1. It represents a “red line” of sorts. The problem for us Apple users is knowing if it’s also a red line for Cook and the powerful group of twelve who quietly control Apple in private. If they give access to the Trump DOJ, I would absorb the financial hit from ditching all our family’s Apple products and move on. I’m in a similar bind with Musk’s Starlink satellite service. Should he involve Starlink in attempts to influence elections I would end my month by month contract and settle for an inferior product that serves our rural area. Look what he’s done with X! There’s nothing stopping him from weaponizing Starlink. Then there’s Amazon, Prime, Whole Foods, the Washington Post and that scumbag Bezos! Dammit, we’re in a real tight spot. 😤
Well, yeah. But if they cross the line, that tight spot will no longer exist. The inferior products won’t be so inferior. That may be what saves that red line. Here’s hoping. Otherwise… idk, does it all just cave in? Or we take some back steps with regard to relying on technology and go back to “analog?” Enough of us remember how to live in that world.
This is very heady stuff. It would be dramatic but not impossible to resurface as a democracy if the surveillance state manages to erase that line.
I’m reading Anne Applebaum’s Autocracy, Inc.. She talks about the belief that had prevailed in the 1990’s that the internet would usher democracy into autocratic countries. What democratic leaders didn’t take into account was that autocratic regimes could use the internet to influence people not only in their own countries but in democratic countries. And here we are. Trump and many citizens in the US being played by a web of authoritarians and their oligarchs.
Thanks, Meredith and Julie! It is the proverbial "slippery slope". Our family had the same conversation about Apple products. My two adult sons are in their 30s, and their families do not support Apple at any level. I still have my iPhone SE and MacBook Pro, but I will move away.
I can now see that Apple's advertising focused more on my generation and not that of my children. It is such a slippery slope in which we live.
One may reasonably conclude that Cook never had any morals, it was all a façade, or one may conclude that as he became wealthier, the morals slowly faded into nothingness.
Historian Timothy Snyder recently wrote on his substack something that confirms this. He wrote about the notes for J. R. R. Tolkien's lecture to British schoolchildren in 1938 of the topic of dragons, on the eve of World War II. Snyder summarized:
"It is the spirit of dragons, concluded Tolkien, that has survived, and it survives in us, or in some of us. A man can become a dragon through sheer greed. If we want to find a dragon, the place to look is the 'vaults of the Bank of England.' And if 'you want to see a dragon-heath just go out and look' at a landscape tortured by machines, a sky blackened with smoke."
The greatest source of suffering, according to Buddha, is attachments and aversions. The more you have, the more you cling for fear of losing it. The more you accumulate, the more averse you are to losing it. Tim Cook is terrified. Living a life of fear, without values, without morals, without humanity, without integrity, is just a shitty life, no matter how much money you accumulate. Tim is imprisoned by his suffering.
It’s telling, I think, that he outed himself in 2014, when being gay was finally accepted in the public sphere. I’m not blaming him for remaining in the closet, but it doesn’t surprise me that he’s capitulating to Trump, given that he capitulated to society’s bigotry. In other words, it seems he chose the corporate ladder over being out publicly. I’m not a mindreader. He may have had some other reason to remain in the closet that was unrelated to his career path in the corporate world.
Addendum: as my thoughts remain on this issue, I realize that to a large degree, it was “normal” and necessary for many LGBTQ+ folks to maintain a firewall between their private life and their career in order to pursue the career of their choosing rather than have their career choice be dictated by private matters that if revealed would result in expulsion. That may very well be where this all started with Tim Cook. Perhaps it’s time for him to take a look at what he’s doing and if it fits who he is. When he outed himself in 2014, did he deconstruct that firewall that he so carefully held in place for so many years?
The Buddhists are right on this point. But it doesn't answer the question WHY did an apparently reasonable person turn? The obvious metaphor here is an apple turning bad; organically that happens but what has turned Cook? Not expecting an answer; just wondering.
Well, and how about whoever married him recently? I'm sorry; that kind of ... exposure doesn't just go away. Thank you, internet. Embarrassment is there forever. (Not that I want to see that crap)
Between those two, I don't know which one is lower class. Him, for sending her his dick pics, or her for her own brother ratting out his sister and her phone contents to the press.
MacKenzie Scott is better off without him, she is really high-class, and without her, he never would have made such a success of Amazon. In a way it's a good thing he screwed around on her, that way he couldn't quibble about how many billions he had to part with.
Woof. I like my generation. Can't imagine sending people pictures of my body parts. Like my underwear underneath my clothes. Can read a whole book. I could go on.
The point is pressure. There needs to be enough pressure on their revenue that they have to speak up. The more they speak, the more Trump listens and changes course.
I get that of course I’m just speaking only of Netflix. They shouldn’t be on the list to cancel their service because they are doing good work. We have to be discerning about our choices.
Pam, I understand what you saying in support of Netflix. I will disagree with you on whether or not they should be included on this list. For me, their silence is acceptance and a form of complicity. That is why I believe they should be on the list.
We will probably not agree on Netflix. That is fine but also the strength of this action. Each of us can unsubscribe from those services we feel is appropriate.
Personally, Netflix is a non-issue for me because I don't have an account.
Reed Hastings, founder and code chairman of Netflix, has given many millions to liberal causes. There was a contentious hearing in the Senate this week about the Warner Brothers acquisition, and if you know anything about the other people who want to buy it, you would be a champion of Netflix coming out on top. Anyway I don’t think they’re silent, they got blasted for their support for Black Lives Matter and some other causes. They Were accused by the MAGA people on the Senate committee for being woke so that alone speaks in their favor wouldn’t you say? But yes, I agree people should make their own decisions about that according to their own lights. I’m just not sure everybody has all the information they need to make the decision to boycott. Painting with a broad brush Is counterproductive, we want to encourage companies to do the right thing and if they’re partway there they should be getting credit for that.
I'm aware of Reed Hastings and would definitely prefer that Netflix purchase WB. Wondering if he can drive Ellison to vastly over pay for WB.
It is so predictable that all Rs have these days is culture war. Not surprised by the attacks. How much do you want to bet that they and all their family members of Netflix account(s)? It would be nice if Ds running for office not get caught up in the culture war trap. Spanberger in VA did a great job with navigating that issue.
Healthy debate and disagreements are good, we won't see eye-to-eye on every issue, so long as work towards the same goal. As Ronald Reagan once commented, "Someone who agrees with me on 80% of the issues is not my enemy 20% of the time.".
I have been an Apple loyalist and have personally bought every single iPhone model since launch. NO MORE! NO more iPhones—for me or for my family. No more iPads, Macs, services, nada!!!!!!! I am just sick to death watching Cook debase himself and Apple to the ORANGE pedo protector!
I got his email address, I’m sure he doesn’t read them, but it made me feel better. I sent him a letter saying “well you happen to be a gay man and you should be careful because you don’t know when they’re going to turn against gay people. Just because you’re giving him money doesn’t mean he’ll be loyal because he’s not loyal to anyone except himself.” and I have a lot of apple products too and started using the Macintosh when my company gave one to everybody to use in 1985.
He wasn’t alone: Eric Yuan, founder and CEO of pandemic darling Zoom Video Communications was also at the Melania disaster premiere, with lips pursed against the posterior of the great orange buffoon. I wonder, given Mr Yuan is an immigrant, doesn’t he know that he is burning the bridge he is walking over with his authoritarian sycophancy?
Don't expect the corporations to save us. They may try to project a kinder, gentler image but, like Neil Young sang, it's really a kinder, gentler machine gun hand. They're in on the killing and brutality and they're getting paid for it.
I stopped using Google when I found out they had removed their corporate slogan “do no evil” back in 2013. They’ll sell you down the river fast now to make a buck. I use Duck Duck Go for searches, they don’t sell your search.
It is impossible to avoid tech, as I read on my Pixel phone and type on my MacBook.
My kids work in tech. I used to be proud of that. Now I'm embarrassed and constantly worried that they'll be laid off. Most tech workers are not the broligarch billionaires... they are just working for a living and wanted to be in a field where they could create and invent. Mostly, though, they now just serve their corporate masters. Tim Cook, if you see this, what a disappointment you are.
However, I am smarter for I know since I was a little kid to never ever give anything to a bully because it gets you nowhere and it only leads to you having to give more and more, your decency in the first place.
Meredith, I agree. The problem is the monopolies. Dell is just as bad. So is IBM. I had such bad luck with Dell laptops that there's not enough money that could convince me to switch to Dell. It's no different with AT&T vs. Verizon or Comcast. They all suck up to trump. Same with other companies. I can't help but wonder what these owners are hiding.
My family and I have been having this conversation. We aren’t changing out our iPhones now - we rely on them too much. We won’t buy new Apple products, however. There are other acceptable computers and laptops made by companies without public ring-kissers at the helm, although their CEOs are undoubtedly morally compromised like Cook.
That’s the problem: once American corporate leaders decided in the 1970s-80s they no longer had to care about the common good, since only “shareholders” matter, they were free to act against the public interest when helpful to their individual fortunes.
Cook, Bezos, Zuckerberg, Ellison, Thiel, Musk … etc. … apparently think bribing Trump is the current key to success, more than a society that protects the rule of law and constitutional rights of its citizens.
I believe this is tragically shortsighted, but that’s where we seem to be.
As far as I’m aware, he hasn’t handed over the keys to the backdoor, yet. That is something that I’m keeping in mind as I consider the same. I’ve got nothing to hide, but I do have something to protect: my privacy.
You raise an important point. It would seem that guarding the “back door” of an operating system should be task #1. It represents a “red line” of sorts. The problem for us Apple users is knowing if it’s also a red line for Cook and the powerful group of twelve who quietly control Apple in private. If they give access to the Trump DOJ, I would absorb the financial hit from ditching all our family’s Apple products and move on. I’m in a similar bind with Musk’s Starlink satellite service. Should he involve Starlink in attempts to influence elections I would end my month by month contract and settle for an inferior product that serves our rural area. Look what he’s done with X! There’s nothing stopping him from weaponizing Starlink. Then there’s Amazon, Prime, Whole Foods, the Washington Post and that scumbag Bezos! Dammit, we’re in a real tight spot. 😤
Well, yeah. But if they cross the line, that tight spot will no longer exist. The inferior products won’t be so inferior. That may be what saves that red line. Here’s hoping. Otherwise… idk, does it all just cave in? Or we take some back steps with regard to relying on technology and go back to “analog?” Enough of us remember how to live in that world.
This is very heady stuff. It would be dramatic but not impossible to resurface as a democracy if the surveillance state manages to erase that line.
I’m reading Anne Applebaum’s Autocracy, Inc.. She talks about the belief that had prevailed in the 1990’s that the internet would usher democracy into autocratic countries. What democratic leaders didn’t take into account was that autocratic regimes could use the internet to influence people not only in their own countries but in democratic countries. And here we are. Trump and many citizens in the US being played by a web of authoritarians and their oligarchs.
Thanks, Meredith and Julie! It is the proverbial "slippery slope". Our family had the same conversation about Apple products. My two adult sons are in their 30s, and their families do not support Apple at any level. I still have my iPhone SE and MacBook Pro, but I will move away.
I can now see that Apple's advertising focused more on my generation and not that of my children. It is such a slippery slope in which we live.
One may reasonably conclude that Cook never had any morals, it was all a façade, or one may conclude that as he became wealthier, the morals slowly faded into nothingness.
Historian Timothy Snyder recently wrote on his substack something that confirms this. He wrote about the notes for J. R. R. Tolkien's lecture to British schoolchildren in 1938 of the topic of dragons, on the eve of World War II. Snyder summarized:
"It is the spirit of dragons, concluded Tolkien, that has survived, and it survives in us, or in some of us. A man can become a dragon through sheer greed. If we want to find a dragon, the place to look is the 'vaults of the Bank of England.' And if 'you want to see a dragon-heath just go out and look' at a landscape tortured by machines, a sky blackened with smoke."
https://snyder.substack.com/p/tolkiens-dragons-and-ours
The enormously wealthy, like dragons, prize only their wealth.
The greatest source of suffering, according to Buddha, is attachments and aversions. The more you have, the more you cling for fear of losing it. The more you accumulate, the more averse you are to losing it. Tim Cook is terrified. Living a life of fear, without values, without morals, without humanity, without integrity, is just a shitty life, no matter how much money you accumulate. Tim is imprisoned by his suffering.
We expected more of him.
It’s telling, I think, that he outed himself in 2014, when being gay was finally accepted in the public sphere. I’m not blaming him for remaining in the closet, but it doesn’t surprise me that he’s capitulating to Trump, given that he capitulated to society’s bigotry. In other words, it seems he chose the corporate ladder over being out publicly. I’m not a mindreader. He may have had some other reason to remain in the closet that was unrelated to his career path in the corporate world.
Addendum: as my thoughts remain on this issue, I realize that to a large degree, it was “normal” and necessary for many LGBTQ+ folks to maintain a firewall between their private life and their career in order to pursue the career of their choosing rather than have their career choice be dictated by private matters that if revealed would result in expulsion. That may very well be where this all started with Tim Cook. Perhaps it’s time for him to take a look at what he’s doing and if it fits who he is. When he outed himself in 2014, did he deconstruct that firewall that he so carefully held in place for so many years?
The Buddhists are right on this point. But it doesn't answer the question WHY did an apparently reasonable person turn? The obvious metaphor here is an apple turning bad; organically that happens but what has turned Cook? Not expecting an answer; just wondering.
Did he turn bad, or was he always just saying what was needed, and those terms have changed dramatically under Trump 2.0?
Sadly, you are probably right. Cowards often say the right thing with a total absence of sincerity.
Honestly, it's like Trump humped all of those guys. And they begged for it.
LOL. Picture that in your mind. Ewwwwwwwwww.
I guess after Jeff had his dick pics exposed, he just doesn't care anymore.
Yup. that's all I ever think about, whenever his name comes up. LOL It really shows that most men are thinking with their dicks.
Well, and how about whoever married him recently? I'm sorry; that kind of ... exposure doesn't just go away. Thank you, internet. Embarrassment is there forever. (Not that I want to see that crap)
Between those two, I don't know which one is lower class. Him, for sending her his dick pics, or her for her own brother ratting out his sister and her phone contents to the press.
MacKenzie Scott is better off without him, she is really high-class, and without her, he never would have made such a success of Amazon. In a way it's a good thing he screwed around on her, that way he couldn't quibble about how many billions he had to part with.
Woof. I like my generation. Can't imagine sending people pictures of my body parts. Like my underwear underneath my clothes. Can read a whole book. I could go on.
Yeah, I really can't find anything to quibble about. You have Tim Cook pegged to a fare thee well here.
Well done.
Happy to say the only apples I own are in the refrigerator.
https://www.resistandunsubscribe.com
Here are businesses to help us all consider what we can do without.
Uninstall, delete, unsubscribe, or delay your next purchase.
But they have Netflix on their list, and Netflix is not a bad company, they do good things and the owner gives money to liberal causes.
The point is pressure. There needs to be enough pressure on their revenue that they have to speak up. The more they speak, the more Trump listens and changes course.
I get that of course I’m just speaking only of Netflix. They shouldn’t be on the list to cancel their service because they are doing good work. We have to be discerning about our choices.
Pam, I understand what you saying in support of Netflix. I will disagree with you on whether or not they should be included on this list. For me, their silence is acceptance and a form of complicity. That is why I believe they should be on the list.
We will probably not agree on Netflix. That is fine but also the strength of this action. Each of us can unsubscribe from those services we feel is appropriate.
Personally, Netflix is a non-issue for me because I don't have an account.
Thanks.
Reed Hastings, founder and code chairman of Netflix, has given many millions to liberal causes. There was a contentious hearing in the Senate this week about the Warner Brothers acquisition, and if you know anything about the other people who want to buy it, you would be a champion of Netflix coming out on top. Anyway I don’t think they’re silent, they got blasted for their support for Black Lives Matter and some other causes. They Were accused by the MAGA people on the Senate committee for being woke so that alone speaks in their favor wouldn’t you say? But yes, I agree people should make their own decisions about that according to their own lights. I’m just not sure everybody has all the information they need to make the decision to boycott. Painting with a broad brush Is counterproductive, we want to encourage companies to do the right thing and if they’re partway there they should be getting credit for that.
I'm aware of Reed Hastings and would definitely prefer that Netflix purchase WB. Wondering if he can drive Ellison to vastly over pay for WB.
It is so predictable that all Rs have these days is culture war. Not surprised by the attacks. How much do you want to bet that they and all their family members of Netflix account(s)? It would be nice if Ds running for office not get caught up in the culture war trap. Spanberger in VA did a great job with navigating that issue.
Healthy debate and disagreements are good, we won't see eye-to-eye on every issue, so long as work towards the same goal. As Ronald Reagan once commented, "Someone who agrees with me on 80% of the issues is not my enemy 20% of the time.".
Apple should remove him if they can. He's no Steve Jobs.
I have been an Apple loyalist and have personally bought every single iPhone model since launch. NO MORE! NO more iPhones—for me or for my family. No more iPads, Macs, services, nada!!!!!!! I am just sick to death watching Cook debase himself and Apple to the ORANGE pedo protector!
I got his email address, I’m sure he doesn’t read them, but it made me feel better. I sent him a letter saying “well you happen to be a gay man and you should be careful because you don’t know when they’re going to turn against gay people. Just because you’re giving him money doesn’t mean he’ll be loyal because he’s not loyal to anyone except himself.” and I have a lot of apple products too and started using the Macintosh when my company gave one to everybody to use in 1985.
He wasn’t alone: Eric Yuan, founder and CEO of pandemic darling Zoom Video Communications was also at the Melania disaster premiere, with lips pursed against the posterior of the great orange buffoon. I wonder, given Mr Yuan is an immigrant, doesn’t he know that he is burning the bridge he is walking over with his authoritarian sycophancy?
Don't expect the corporations to save us. They may try to project a kinder, gentler image but, like Neil Young sang, it's really a kinder, gentler machine gun hand. They're in on the killing and brutality and they're getting paid for it.
I stopped using Google when I found out they had removed their corporate slogan “do no evil” back in 2013. They’ll sell you down the river fast now to make a buck. I use Duck Duck Go for searches, they don’t sell your search.
It is impossible to avoid tech, as I read on my Pixel phone and type on my MacBook.
My kids work in tech. I used to be proud of that. Now I'm embarrassed and constantly worried that they'll be laid off. Most tech workers are not the broligarch billionaires... they are just working for a living and wanted to be in a field where they could create and invent. Mostly, though, they now just serve their corporate masters. Tim Cook, if you see this, what a disappointment you are.
Maybe it's time for Trump to rename Tim Apple again. Perhaps, Tim Cooked?
Tim Rotten?
I really think Cook has a higher IQ then me.
However, I am smarter for I know since I was a little kid to never ever give anything to a bully because it gets you nowhere and it only leads to you having to give more and more, your decency in the first place.
Meredith, I agree. The problem is the monopolies. Dell is just as bad. So is IBM. I had such bad luck with Dell laptops that there's not enough money that could convince me to switch to Dell. It's no different with AT&T vs. Verizon or Comcast. They all suck up to trump. Same with other companies. I can't help but wonder what these owners are hiding.
Over the last few years, we’ve all come to expect the absolute worst of our tech overlords...
AND SO FAR, WE'VE NEVER BEEN DISAPPOINTED! ;)
Tim Cook is certainly better than this, and how he can sleep at night in a mystery to me!