42 Comments
User's avatar
Wendy horgan's avatar

Agreed, a source of insight and wisdom. Thanks Jen for making this interview available.

If I understood Professor Ben-Ghiat, the targeting of USAID, medical research, etc. is purposeful and aimed at destroying the image of American as a force for good, for democracy and for progress. This is a more frightening idea than a hapless DOGE destroying government. Maybe DOGE is not so inefficient after all if the point was to make America a pariah in the world.

Expand full comment
Michelle Jordan's avatar

This is all so fascinating but frightening at the same time. The more I watch these interviews the more I learn.

Expand full comment
justin SG's avatar

Excellent, clear analysis of our current situation. Thank you Professor Ruth Ben-Ghiat and to Jen Rubin for all you are doing!

Expand full comment
AnderR's avatar

Thanks for historical context. Hopefully courts can continue to keep the game “in bounds” until the midterms.

Expand full comment
JKM's avatar

What a powerful words from Professor Ben-Ghiat, her wisdom and articulate ideas are much appreciated. I cannot imagine what it must feel like as a professor to see your life’s work and research played out in real time in your own country. I am grateful for the Contrarian and these excellent interviews and am learning much every day. Thanks to you both.

Expand full comment
Julie Bannerman's avatar

Isn’t this a coup - literally? Demeaning and ignoring judges outside of legal processes, reversing our nation’s global primacy in scientific and other research, erasing history, aligning wealth and power for billionaires…? How do we and others fight back?

Expand full comment
Marta's avatar

It is a slow motion coup. Fast motion:when the military do it and suspend the Constitution inmediately.

Expand full comment
m slowins's avatar

all because americans failed to vote out all the republicans

Expand full comment
martina N's avatar

90 million Americans who are potential voters were too apathetic to vote. If they had helped us, we would have been able to hold onto the government, not be faced with this dictatorship.

Expand full comment
Renee Shapiro's avatar

It's entirely possible that there aren't 90 million people who were too apathetic to vote but that there was a portion of that population who were scrubbed from voting lists and otherwise kept from voting due to voter suppression laws put in place in many states.

Expand full comment
martina N's avatar

I stand corrected in an important issue. Thank you. Nevertheless, thee was a huge block of non-voters.

Expand full comment
Susan C Shea's avatar

True, but it was most likely a combination of things. Still, so dramatic to look back to November and realize just how much was at stake.

Expand full comment
martina N's avatar

I want to say that maybe 20 million were kept from voting by the Repubilcans’ nefarious tactics. But there were still a lot of people who just didn’t vote. We need to acknowledge both parts of this. I am sorry that I don’t know what the “eliminated” number was, and how many of the real ballots were “lost” on purpose.

Expand full comment
Katherine P Duncan's avatar

Or did they? I'm still not sure. Musk was doing a lot of things. . . and I trust him not at all. Nevertheless, it is what it is now.

Expand full comment
Carla Maria Rodrigues's avatar

Stephen Miller has basically been silent for 4 years and much more out of the public eye than in the first Trump term. Now we can see what he has been doing.....

Expand full comment
Justin Sayne's avatar

Is there a bigger enemy of the United States than Donald Trump and his Republican minions? And, the mindless millions of our fellow citizens who voted to destroy their own country?

Expand full comment
Lark Leonard's avatar

This was excellent! Thank you, Ruth & Jen. It's so important for us all to clearly realize how orchestrated this entire sequence has been. The purposefulness of it, behind the curtain of "normalcy", is bone-chilling.

Expand full comment
Renee Shapiro's avatar

While I agree that things have been happening very quickly since Trump came into office, it's also true that the preparations have been put in place over a long period of time and took a great deal of effort. Project 2025 was really the result of many years of work by numbers of Oligarchs who have been distorting our political system. Let's not forget the Koch brothers. It's sad to hear that American innovation now entails having two people heading up an authoritarian take-over. I'm wondering, however, if Trump is mostly a figurehead, given his evident cognitive decline, and that the true leaders are Musk and the team of tech bros.

Expand full comment
Susan C Shea's avatar

And tge Federalist Society, although I wonder if all of those individuals realized how susceptible their puppet trump would be to Musk? Maybe not in their plans!

Expand full comment
thomas almirall's avatar

Thank you Jen and The Contrarian for what you and Norm are doing. Thank you for inviting Professor Ben Ghiat to explain and help us understand how Trump and Musk are going about destroying America for their own personal benefit. April 5th is a day of national protest across the country. We must use our collective voices to loudly and resoundingly reject Trump’s dictatorial ambitions and restore democracy.

Expand full comment
Michael McGuire's avatar

I so enjoy both of your work. You contribute do much to my understanding.

Expand full comment
Marta's avatar

We need to be involved, choose the way that is best for you: go to a town hall, inform your family and friends, donate to different organizations (dem party, aclu, contrarian,,) inform the public , contact Congress : letters, emails, calls, postcards. We can not loose this country to tirany. What Prof Ben Ghiat described is exactly how the military did it in my country of Argentina.

Expand full comment
Becky O A's avatar

Keep telling the story of protests as long as you can, before the administration takes over all the media sources. And be prepared to publish underground. Hitler overturned Germany in 52 days, Trump and Musk are a little slower, but it's a big country. I am angry and terrified about what we will be called upon to protect and nurture democracy and in particular our imperfect gains in Civil Rights over the last 60 years. All must be protected

Expand full comment
JP4M's avatar

Jen, what a pleasure and a need it was to see your interview with Professor Ruth Ben-Ghiat!

Thank you so much. Her knowledge and explanations are valuable, and I look forward to hearing her again.

Expand full comment